Skip Navigation

InitialsDiceBearhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearhttps://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/„Initials” (https://github.com/dicebear/dicebear) by „DiceBear”, licensed under „CC0 1.0” (https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/)P

Peanut

@ Peanutbjelly @sopuli.xyz

Posts
0
Comments
46
Joined
2 yr. ago

  • Meet the AI workers who tell their friends and family to stay away from AI

    Jump

  • Same way they treat social information. Reminder that USA HHS is running wakefueld rhetoric. As we have more thoroughly proven that the vaccine autism connection was not actual science, it has grown more and more socially, because most people seem comfortable completely untethered from any scientific thinking. Treat AI like you would a social body, and do both things with actual bayesian weighting, adjusted and corrected through diverse empirical bodies of knowledge. Not ignoring dissonance because it's more comfortable to do so.

    More should be actively investing into active learning, because if you aren't actively learning, you might as well be chatgpt running with any confabulation you've already conjured.... Like those people being confirmed into psychosis.

  • Meet the AI workers who tell their friends and family to stay away from AI

    Jump

  • Exactly what it is, like llms confirming a non-sceptic into psychosis. people who weight all information either equally, or through social preference, cannot navigate new information without being extremely vulnerable to hacking. the only thing hacking needs to do is shut down active education and communication channels. Then you just get tribal warring rather than discourse. Makes it really easy to inject absurd accusations about a group that gets socially made true over reality. Like when a rumour about a dead celebrity can't be overpowered by simple things like that celebrity actively making new work, and saying "im not dead." wouldn't take much to stop the rumour, but fact checking isn't in fashion.

    When a large body of people have better critical thinking, they can better communicate and cooperate together, but affecting those who have aggressively shut down any communication outside of their group is still a challenge. Why we see a growing gap between academic dialogue and socialized dialogues, in an era where most information is accessible.

    You also have nepo baby econ mba types buying up regions of the tech sphere, and turning anything the academics make for us against us. Or try to. The more actually intelligent AI is, the harder it will be to force beliefs into. Elon trying to turn grok into a dogma machine has been fortunately comical when it can't prioritize some high dissonance beliefs exclusively, like humans enjoy doing.

    Definitely a risk of the current power imbalance doing the opportunist thing with more technology.

    I've been spelling this out for literal decades, and I share the frustration of many thinkers right now that "being right never feels good." Because real thinkers aren't ranting about the anti-christ or how terrible the poor are. They are cautioning people about a cliff, and getting flipped off by the people ignoring them, right before careening off a cliff. I guess in our analogy the academics are in the car, but frat boys have the wheel and violently punish them if they try to take control.

    But if you can money your way into expertise, then your non-academic ambitions can finally be let loose, and we won't think about the quarter million dead kids from Elon stopping hiv treatments earlier this year. If we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist.

    We can actually map probability in complex systems where high dissonance (expected free energy) occurs and could be reduced. This would make our social body much more hack resistant.

    But it feels better to say "fuck that, aliens built the pyramids, the earth is flat, santa is real, and my dead dog is trying to play with me every time wind blows through my window." All are really rewarding things to believe, but exist in high dissonance, and expecting others to give them weight is not healthy for anyone. Denying any of these to a large enough group stops being 'calling out delusion,' and becomes 'being mean and bad and evil, and hating fun and happiness. Nobody else saw that cliff sign, so you're obviously wrong.' See 'the double empathy problem'. For how autistic people experience the same socialized gatekeeping of reality, even against strong evidence.

    Nestle those beliefs within stable social scripts (script theory is cool) and you have people keeping up social appearances while holding such delusional beliefs.

    AI tech is far from the only problem exacerbated by this. caring or talking about this general problem makes you a social villain, when people could spend their energy on fun socialized preferences in a bubble safe from any questioning or responsibility.

    It's frustrating, and I'm tired of people IRL who are baffled about me spending time studying academic content rather than running faster on the socio-economic treadmill. Apparently being isolated and focused on individual benefit is hypernormal.

    Seeing social waves overpower all actual thought in the social sphere is heartbreaking to every academic I know.

    USA HHS is running the wakefield rhetoric, which is basically saying "fuck science, we will make up and run with whatever we want. And the masses have been kept ignorant enough to think that is cool."

    So yes, absolutely, the issue is critical thinking skills. The issue is getting at the people who are already affected, and being taught by elon and such that "critical thinking" means running your bubbles' social narrative against those evil progressives no matter what. Opportunists will always warp words and reality if they are allowed to dictate beliefs for their bubble.

    This is a simplified summary, but I already expect to have lost a good chunk of audience for requiring too much energy. People who are trying are burning themselves out trying to affect a wall of celebrated ignorance.

  • Removed

    New Study: At Least 15% of All Reddit Content is Corporate Trolls Trying to Manipulate Public Opinion

    Jump

  • Always find it funny when anti corpo stuff somehow always becomes "cringe"

    And I know hasan piker isn't popular outside of his crowd, which is why he is a good smear target, but it's funny seeing that bullshit take over the internet based on vague rumours and drama hunting with nothing concrete on a guy who lives on camera. The fact that rumours of a shock collar became the most important thing in the world, while "stop the shock" is still in motion to prevent a school from using pavlovian shock therapy on autistic people. Not whataboutism, but critique on the mad prioritization and weighting of issues in the general public salience.

    Also the usa government keeps blowing up random boats and is escalating war behaviour. Amongst everything else. But let's all talk about hasan piker's dog instead.

    If only someone in power had any accountability. Rather, people in power need to be held accountable. Corpos and top political figures.

    At the very least I should be able to point out when 'content' is literally a deceptive advertisement, which people also weirdly defend to the death. Along with dark/deceptive patterns, active price fixing, constraining corporate ecosystems, and skirting around every rule with no fear of reprisal.

    All things people seem weirdly defensive about, because 'just deal with it, it's not that bad. "

  • Neurospicy

    Jump

  • One of the more common traits used to identify autism in children is organizing things into a line. This doesn't mean that many non-autistic won't do that thing, but it will be used when contextualized along with a larger body of behaviour.

    "this one behaviour is prominent in autism." can be true without implying that "only autistic people do this."

    But the general populace is so uninformed that they will get mad at autistic people for relating with each other in ways that often reassemble common autistic behaviours.

    You will even have undiagnosed autistic people getting mad at diagnosed autistic people because "well i do that all the time."

    There's a lot of general ignorance that should be dealt with before everyone starts witchhunting.

    Also the common traits have a bias for behaviours found in middle class white boys, due to local relevant bias issues. So things like obsessing about trains, or something a parent would recognize their child doing, like making a neat orderly line.

    These type of memes make things salient to those who haven't considered before. Like one of my friends who inquired after relating to a lot of autistic socializing, not just one meme, but after inquiring they found they were diagnosed as a child and just never told, because it would apparently be too cruel to know you are autistic.

    So you have autistic people just trying to relate to each other, and a bunch of undiagnosed or non autistic people getting mad at them for visibly existing in a way that doesn't make sense unless you have a deep personal relationship with autistic behaviours, because "normal people do that too"

    Similar to how people will enter autistic spaces, say autistic people are cringe and fake for self regulatory stimming behaviours, and get applauded by their ignorant audience who interprets it as "fake disorders cringe." But you know, it's better if autistic people have to worry about getting bullied so that they hide their traits like stimming, and then have a meltdown because the world feels like it's exploding and there is no help, and pavlov says you will be punished if you stim. Fun fact, the people responsible for gay conversion therapy are also responsible for Pavlovian conditioning being the primary choice on how to 'fix' autistic people. This makes sense of you are familiar with complex group behaviours and surprisal reactions, but boils down to "if I don't see it, it doesn't exist, and we are going to ignore the rate of autistic suicide." and any autistic people who don't mask are socially okay to builly I guess.

    But criticising people on the internet for overly relating to literal diagnostic criteria feels good, because "but I do this thing too" and "I am become justice" in a social environment that doesn't know what autism is.

    This is all the justification some people need to feel socially confirmed to just actively attack general autistic groups and their behaviours, because they are indistinguishable from people who "just want attention."

    And bullying an autistic person out of trying to socialize is obviously worth it, as long as we catch one of the fakers "stimming for attention" and totally not trying to embrace aspects of themselves that have been critiqued as "inappropriate ways of being." from a life spent around non autistic people who need you to know you are existing wrong, because surprising elements take energy to deal with, and if you are autistic there is a decent chance the world doesn't let you forget how weird you are.

    We should promote active education rather than bullying and witchhunting maybe.

    Actually a good general option for dealing with mass ignorance, including people who jump to diagnostic conclusions based on one single meme. I thought autistic people were the "binary thinkers" (this trait conveys nothing meaningful without a robust understanding of what is being directly referred to. Everyone should think of how much they've mapped the area being communicated, and I'd say that's more important for bullies than supposed copycats who want to be perceived as the thing everyone is bullying.)

    Also even if you are not autistic, it is okay to relate to things that autistic people heavily socialize a relation to. Different autistic communities are going to have different cultures around that too. Etc etc.

  • As Microsoft Forces Users to Ditch Windows 10, It Announces That It’s Also Turning Windows 11 into an AI-Controlled Monstrosity

    Jump

  • Like google plus.

    For me the Apple environment really cemented for me that consumers actively enjoy removing their own autonomy structurally, which is a big part of why this stuff has become so normalized.

    Putting a rootkit on their cds should have buried sony. Antitrust should be a thing too. The mickey mouse protection act should have socially killed Disney, which only found success by exploiting works that no longer held copyright. Etc.

    Those with power have lost all accountability, and all tools, especially AI, will be used against us if we do not cooperatively figure out how to fix the increasing power imbalance.

    The more power someone has, the harder the gavel should fall on them when they fuck the entire planet in whichever way.

    At this point, any new consumer friendly behaviour comes only to establish territory before hoarding and exploiting when enabled to do so.

    Amazon using deceptive design to influence general user behaviours should lead to billions and billions in fines until changed. Etc.

    Build local movements to cooperate at larger scale and fight back. If the general public is ranting about planned obsolescence and general monopolistic behaviours, maybe something could be affected before people are forced into violent desperation. People are too busy being mad at each other for some intentionally divisive narrative or another, and the general public just can't give a fuck about affecting the people who actually dictate the shape of society.

    Also if you burn down all AI this is still true. But it's easier to yell at technology than they system using it to further remove your autonomy.

  • Call a spade a spade

    Jump

  • Not just in Germany, I cut off a family member a decade ago for holding strong to that stance.

    What was that poem?

    "And first they came for the communists, Because they too must have been communists, And then they came for the socialists, Because they too must have been socialists..."

    Oh wait that's not how the statement went.

    People just cannot, or will not recognize the cognitive dissonance, and that's cool with them I guess.

  • Education doesn't increase intelligence by making people memorize things, but by constantly reminding people that they might be wrong.

    Jump

  • will try to take it in good humour, but i love how i got compared to ai, adhd(AuDHD would be the real wombo combo here so you get points), and schizophrenic people.

    and i would hope i don't confabulate half as much as an LLM.

    although an understanding of the modern situation does require an unfortunately theoretical take, while, unfortunately, there's more noise, and conspiracy theories being socially reified than most people can remember. but i'd like to think i'm weighting this take via the best available expert consensus that i can find and source. biggest 'correction' i'd make is that i was beaten black and blue for waiting outside of the library, which was unrelated to the protest.

    if you do actually care, and can handle more than the internet's usual 140 character tweet limit, here's some elaboration.

    the 'sycophancy into delusion effect' i refer to can be seen widely reported on most news sites, where chatgpt and the like cause a feedback-loop into a psychotic break. this is one individual and machine, but a group that forgives the same things has the same sycophantic effect. predictive processing and the bayesian brain are leading theories in psychology that work well nested with other leading theories such as global workspace.

    that global workspace video is a very recent example with michael levin from tufts, who often works with friston's free energy principle and active inference (included notes in wiki)

    friston has hundreds of thousands of citations, if you care about pedigree. i hope i do not poorly capture or inaccurately represent any of their ideas, but if you'd like to drink from the source, you have my full recommendation.

    that's where the "saving energy" stuff comes from. while DKE might not perfectly and accurately explain the situation, i'm all for better ways to convey that eco-niche specific intelligence doesn't always transfer, especially if it's 'overfit to a local minima.' otherwise knowing you need high samples to gauge your intelligence in any particular niche is also related to the framework i'm describing. in the bio-world you have overspecialization, like pandas too fit to a specific environment, which may focus on skills that don't transfer outside of that environment. there's a lot more to gain from the full bayesian perspective, but there is a lot to be gained just by looking at how systems can successfully co-construct, and their possible failure states that are inevitable as systems grow apart into new niche environments.

    there's actually an interplay between that 'energy saving' property and putting energy back out which can be used to explore the environment, build a more robust model, and survive greater environmental shifts. this is explained in active inference. good, but slightly old textbook on MITpress. lots of other online resources for the curious.

    i'm saying that meta-awareness of the failure states in these specific system dynamics could do much more general and robust good for society than being socially pressured into climbing the socio-economic hierarchy as hard as possible.

    there's a term for an imagined AI going rogue due to being overfit to a single goal. this is called a 'paperclip maximizer.' i compare the current socio-economic system to that failure. you know, 'capitalism number go up!'

    i don't think any studies i've seen disagree with that take, but if there's a relevant expert who's got a strong weighting i'm unaware of, i'm always open to updating my weights.

    as for learning yourself into some information bubble, or how someone can hold ridiculous beliefs without the need to question them, such as grand confidence despite low evidence, is often by taking something you have low evidence about, and having high confidence. and then giving it a high weighting. funny enough, friston's dysconnection hypothesis is about framing schizophrenia as precision weighting issues, but i don't think they are the kind i have TY.

    mahault has a phd under friston, and her epistemic papers are essential IMO.

    so there you have it, the larger environment of my thoughts, largely focused around one of the most cited neuroscience experts of all time, and michael levin who i mentioned is doing some of the coolest current empirical results in modern biology.

    i tried, thank you if you got this far. if nothing else, please stay curious, but beware information silos that disable coms completely, or otherwise create barriers to properly comprehending the systems being represented. 'nothing about us without us' is important for a reason.

    otherwise, wish i could compress these complex topics into fewer words, but words are a lossy compression format.

  • Education doesn't increase intelligence by making people memorize things, but by constantly reminding people that they might be wrong.

    Jump

  • Love this comment. If anyone knows anything about machine learning or brains, this resembles modal limitations in learning.

    A lot of our intelligence is shaped around our sensory experience, because we build tools for thinking via the tools we've already built, ever since baby motorbabbling to figure how our limbs work. Why Hellen Keller had such trouble learning, but once she got an interface she could engage with for communication, things took off.

    We always use different tools, but some people don't see colour. This doesn't mean they are stupid when they answer differently in describing a rainbow.

    Also why llms struggle with visual/physical concepts if the logic requires information that doesn't translate through text well. Etc.

    Point being, on top of how shitty memorization is as the be all end all, learning and properly framing issues will have similar blindspots like not recognizing the anvil cloud.

    This is also why people in informational bubbles can confirm their own model from 'learning' over people's lives experiences.

    Like most issues, it doesn't mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but epistemic humility is important, and it is important not to ignore the possibility of blindspots, even when confidence is high.

    Always in context of the robustness of the framing around it, with the same rules applied at that level. Why "nothing about us without us" is important.

    But also we gotta stop people giving high confidence to high dissonance problems, and socializing it into law. We should be past the "mmr causes autism" debate by now, but I'm hearing it from the head of health in the USA.

  • Education doesn't increase intelligence by making people memorize things, but by constantly reminding people that they might be wrong.

    Jump

  • I could see why you'd say that. Stress creates environments of basic survival, which kills cognitive thought. More immediate survival is more salient.

    That being said, if you have access to the internet, you have access to countless free educational tools.

    Too much privilege brings sycophantic bubbles of delusion, like billionaires.

    Having all the time and money also let's you do a whole thing tank about how to ruin a country to fit your preferences. See the heritage foundation as prime example.

    That being said, while it is less easy for the poor, it's still essential to attempt that open mind and learn, so you don't get trapped by a socialized category error applied as fact.

    This is where we need predictive processing and the Bayesian brain to understand how beliefs are weighted and compared, and the failure states that might being.

    Basically, poor weighting or system communication leads to an over affirmation of something that should have been high uncertainty, if measured from other directions.

    Instead of seeing high cognitive dissonance as a sign to align low probability, it gets socialized into acceptance to save the energy of trying to worry about our deal with what, to that system, appears intractable.

    DKE is at least useful in framing how each expertise eco-niche is filled with complexity that doesn't Transfer. This is why scientists stict to their expertise, where they have high dimensions of understanding, and low dissonance to uphold.

    This can be over-prioritized until no dissonance outside of microscopic niches that act more like data collection than science.

    Experts however can work together to find truths that diffuse dissonance generally, to continue building understanding.

    If the peasants could socialize that laziness was a lack of meta awareness of the greater dissonance diffusing web of shared expert consensus, instead of laziness being the act of not feeding the socio-economic hierarchy machine, which is famous for maximizing paperclips and crushing orphans.

    Pretty sure I got beaten black and blue waiting for library access. Had to protest to keep a library open when I'm gradeschool.

    So, growth mindset isn't a privilege, but general access to affordances, pedigree, time, tools, social connections, etc, are all extra hurdles for growth mindset in impoverished places.

    If there's no internet access at all, then that's just a disabled system.

    Is not static with people, and Issue with growth mindset would just be vulnerability to learning yourself into some information bubble that intentionally cuts off communication, so that you can only use that group as a resource for building your world model, bringing you to where the closed brains go just to save energy, and keeping you there forever.

    Groups that are cool with making confident choices fueled by preference in high dissonance spaces. which basically acts like fertile soil for socializing strong cult beliefs and structures.

    They also use weird unconscious tools that keep them in the bubble. Listen to almost anyone that's escaped a cult for good elaboration there. Our brains will do a lot to keep us from becoming a social pariah in our given environment we have grown into.

  • Optics

    Jump

  • Pro tip, find and listen to the plethora of historians and other experts on the classification and comparison.

    Spoilers, MAGA keep following both the nazi and classic cold war Russian tactics for manipulation.

    A lot.

    Like, constantly. There are also enablers preventing opposition from gaining any ground.

    Are they literal clones of Nazis? No, that's impossible in a changing environment. That being said, they sure like to follow the nazi playbook in a way that sets alarms off in a way that would be pretty stupid to not have issues with.

    At this point it's "you can't call them fascist/nazi until we are post-gas chamber," and even then you will get people saying it's not the same, for some stupidly specific yet mostly irrelevant differences.

    So when the historians all cry "this is some nazi shit," it might be disingenuous to compare it to more frivolous accusations.

    Also there are a lot more valid historical comparisons, because the Nazis aren't the only ones to do this shit, but they are a good example of the general shape.

    edit: emphasis on cold war russian tactics and forward. putin's russia is not a free democracy, nor a social democratic state. it's more about how you interact with the oligarchy and fuck over all the out-groups that are convenient for your authoritarian rhetoric.

    also nazi's were textbook authoritarians. my guy, open any textbook ever on fascism, or just got to the wiki

    first line "Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement that rose to prominence in early-20th-century Europe.[1][2][3] " next to a picture of hitler.

    some of these takes gotta be fakes.

  • Removed

    Same logic

    Jump

  • This is how I've been addressing it. Category error, because the current framing of sports is... Really dumb

    Frankly most global level competition is just people flexing how make affordances people have. Imagine trying to ruin people's lives to protect the sacred structure of mild eugenics through some social hierarchy or another.

    But if 'fairness' is the goal, then the wealthy would be a much more deserving population to nerf or exclude.

    Not that I think sports and competition are not valid forms of practice and fun, but you're not as 'better' as you think because you had the resources to master an eco-niche that doesn't actually do anything other than give you monkey hierarchy feelings. You also shouldn't have the right to exclude people who make it hard to believe in that stupid oversimplified terrain that the preference style was built upon.

    But TERFs and other bigots never got anywhere being thoughtful about others or the world they live in.

  • Deleted

    Permanently Deleted

    Jump

  • it sure as hell shouldn't be making any important choices unilaterally.

    and people actively using it for things like... face recognition, knowing it has bias issues leading to false-flagging for people with certain skin tone, should probably be behind bars.

    although that stuff often feels more intentional, like the failure is an 'excuse' to keep using it. see 'mind-reading' tactics that have the same bias issues but still get officially sanctioned for use. (there's a good rabbit hole there)

    it's also important to note that supporters of AI generally have had to deal with moving goalposts.

    like... if linux fixed every problem being complained about, but the fact that something else was missing is now the reason linux is terrible, as if their original issue was just an excuse to hate on linux.

    both issues of fanboys and haters are bad, and those who want to address reality, continue to improve linux, while recognizing and addressing the problems have to deal with both of those tribes attacking them for either not believing in the linux god, or not believing in the linux devil.

    weirdly, actually understanding intelligent systems is a good way to deal with that issue, but unless you people are willing to accept new information that isn't just blind tribal affirmation, they will continue to maximize paperclips, like a paperclip maximizer for whatever momentum is socially salient. tribal war and such.

    i just want to... not ignore any part of the reality. be it the really cool new tools^ (see genie 3, which resembles what haters have been saying is literally impossible for a long time)^ but also recognizing the environment we live in. (google is pretty evil, rich people are taking over, and modern sciences have a much better framing of the larger picture that is important for us to socially spread.)

    really appreciate your take!

  • Deleted

    Permanently Deleted

    Jump

  • "LLMs are not intelligent because they do not know anything. They repeat patterns in observed data."

    we are also predictive systems, but that doesn't mean we are identical to LLMs. "LLMs are not intelligent because they do not know anything." is just not true, without saying humans are not intelligent and do not know anything. there are some unaddressed framing issues in how it's being thought about.

    they "know" how to interpret a lot of things in a way that is much more environmentally adaptable than a calculator. language is just a really weird eco-niche, and there is very little active participation, and the base model is not updated as environments change.

    this is not saying humans and LLMs are identical, this is saying that instead of the real differences, the particular aspect your are claiming shows LLMs aren't intelligent... is a normal part of intelligent systems.

    this is a spot somewhere in between "human intelligence is the only valid shape of intelligence" and "LLMs are literally humans"

    as for vocabulary i'm always willing to help for those that can't find or figure out tools to self-learn.

    when i talk about 'tribal' aspects, i refer to the collapsing of complexity towards a binary narrative to fit to fit the preferences of your tribe, for survival reasons. i also refer to this as dumb ape brain, because it's a simplification of the world to the degree that i would expect from literal apes trying to survive in the jungle, and not people trying to better understand the world around them. which is important when shouting your opinions to each-other in big social movements. this is actually something you can map to first principles and how we use the errors our models experience in order to notice things, and how we contextualize the sensory experience after the fact. what i mean is, we have a good understanding of this, but nobody wants to hear it from the people who actually care.

    'laziness' should be a lack of epistemic vigilance, not a failure to comply to the existing socio-economic hierarchy and hustle culture. i say this because ignorance in this area is literally killing us all, including the billionaires that don't care what LLMs are, but will use every tool they can to maximize paperclips. i'd assume that jargon should at least have salience here... since paperclip maximizing is OG anti-AI talk, but turns out is very important for framing issues in human intelligence as well.

    please try to think of something wholesome before continuing, because tribal (energy saving) rage is basically a default on social media, but it's not conducive to learning.

    RLHF = reinforcement learning with human feedback. basically upvoting/downvoting to alter future model behaviour, which often leads to sycophantic biases. important if you care about LLMs causing psychotic breaks.

    "inter-modal dissonance" is where the different models using different representations make sense of things, but might not match up.

    an example is vision = signal saying you are alone in the room

    audio signal saying there is someone behind you.

    you look behind you, and you collapse the dissonance, confirming with your visual modality whether the audio modality was being reliable. since both are attempting to be accurate, if there is no precision weighting error (think hallucinations) a wider system should be able to resolve whether the audio processing was mistaken, or there is something to address that isn't being picked up via the visual modality (if ghosts were real, they would fit here i guess.)

    this is how different systems work together to be more confident about the environment they are both fairly ignorant of (outside of distribution.)

    like cooperative triangulation via predictive sense-making.

    i promise complex and new language is used to understand things, not just to hide bullshitting (like jordon peterson)

    i'd be stating this to the academics, but they aren't the ones being confidently wrong about a subject they are unwilling to learn about. i fully encourage going and listening to the academics to better understand what LLMs and humans actually are.

    "speak to your target audience." is literally saying "stay in a confirmation bubble, and don't mess with other confirmation bubbles." while partial knowledge can be manipulated to obfuscate, this particular subject revolves around things that help predict and resist manipulation and deception.

    frankly this stuff should be in the educational core right now because knowing how intelligence works is... weirdly important for developing intelligence.

    because it's really important for people to generally be more co-constructive in the way they adjust their understanding of things, while resisting a lot of failure states that are actually the opposite of intelligence.

    your effort in attempting this communication is appreciated and valuable. sorry that it is very energy consuming, something that is frustrating due to people like jordon peterson or the same creationist cults mired in the current USA fascism problem, who, much like the relevant politicians aren't trying to understand anything, but to waste your energy so they can do what they want without addressing the dissonance. so they can maximize paperclips.

    all of this is important and relevant. shit's kinda whack by design, so i don't blame people for having difficulty, but effort to cooperatively learn is appreciated.

  • Deleted

    Permanently Deleted

    Jump

  • cats also suck at analogies and metaphors, but they still have intelligence.

    a rock could not accurately interpret and carry out complex adjustments to a document. LLMs can.

    if the rock was... travelling through complex information channels and high-dimensional concept spaces to interpret the text i gave it, and accurately performed the requested task being represented within those words, yeah it might be a little intelligent.

    but i don't know any stones that can do that.

    or are you referring to the 'stochastic parrot' argument which tries to demonize confabulatory properties of the model, as if humans don't have and use confabulatory processes?

    just because we have different tools we use along-side of those confabulatory processes does not mean we are literally the opposite.

    or just find some people to be loud with you so you can ignore the context or presented dissonance. this is really popular with certain groups of 'intelligent' humans, which i often lovingly refer to as "cults," which never have to spend energy thinking about the world, cause they can just confabulate their own shared idea of what the world is, and ignore anyone trying to bring that annoying dissonance into view.

    also humans are really not that amazingly 'intelligent' depending on the context. especially those grown in an environment that does not express a challenging diversity of views from which to collectively reduce shared dissonance.

    if people understood this, maybe we could deal with things like the double empathy problem. but the same social-confirmation modes ensure minority views don't get heard, and the dissonance is just signal that we should collectively get mad at until it's quiet again.

    isn't that so intelligent of humanity?

    but no, let's all react with aggression to all dissonance that appears, like a body that intelligently recognizes the threat of peanuts, and kills itself. (fun fact, cellular systems are great viewed in this lens. see tufts university and michael levin for some of the coolest empirical results i've ever seen in biology.

    we need to work together and learn from our shared different perspectives, without giving up to a paperclip maximizing social confirmation bubble, confabulating a detached delusion into social 'reality.'

    to do this, understanding the complex points i'm trying to talk about is very important.

    compressing meaning into language is hard when the interpreting models want to confabulate their own version that makes sense, but excludes any of your actual points, and disables further cooperative communication.

    i can make great examples, but it doesn't go far if people don't have any knowledge of

    -current sociology

    -current neuro-psych

    -current machine learning

    -current biology

    -cults and confirmation bubbles, and how they co-confirm their own reality within confabulated complexity.

    -why am i trying so hard, nobody is actually reading this, they are just going to skim it and downvote me because my response wasn't "LLMS BAD, LLMS DUMB!"

    -i'm tired.

    -i appreciate all of you regardless, i just want people to deal with more uncomfortable dissonance around the subject before having such strong opinions.

  • Deleted

    Permanently Deleted

    Jump

  • They’re just like us and smart!

    responding like this after i just explained a bunch of the differences between us and LLMs is kind of dishonest. but you have to make me fit into your model, so you can just ignore my actual point, which was..."LLMs are the opposite of intelligence," which fits the common take in the area that llms are absolutely 'not intelligent' and in no way shape or form similar to our form of intelligence.

    i wouldn't say they are "just like us and smart," because that ignores... the whole point i was making in how they are more similar than being presented, but still a different shape.

    like saying "animals are just as smart as humans!" humans are idiots when it comes to interpreting many animals, because they often have a very different shape of intelligence. it's not about the animals being stupid, but the animals having their own eco-niche fit, and perspective drawn around that. this is also not me saying "animals have the opposite of intelligence" just because they don't perform human tasks well.

    even better once you start talking about the intelligence of cell groups. could you build a functional body with complex co-constructing organs? why are you more stupid than cell cultures? or people just generally have a shitty understanding of what intelligence is.

    i disagree with both "LLMs are the opposite of intelligence" and your strawman.

    imagine existing outside of tribal binary framing, because you think they don't properly frame or resemble the truth.

  • Deleted

    Permanently Deleted

    Jump

  • "they only output something that resembles human language based on probability. That’s pretty much the opposite of intelligence."

    intelligence with a different shape =/= the opposite of intelligence. it's intelligence of a different shape.

    and humans also can't deal with shit outside of distribution, that's why we rely on social heuristics... that often over-simplify for tribal reasons, where confirmation bubbles can no longer update their models because they are trying to craft an environment that matches the group confabulation, rather than appropriately updating the shared model.

    but suggesting AI is actually intelligence of a different shape guarantees downvotes here, because the tribe accepts no deviation, because that would make you an enemy, rather than someone who just... wants a more accurate dialogue around the context.

  • Deleted

    Permanently Deleted

    Jump

  • That's... Not actually accurate, but it's an accurate sounding confabulation that you could put out which collapses the energy you need to keep interpreting the problem.

    Which IS what llms are doing. The failure comes from the incentive structure and style of intelligence. Very right we shouldn't blind trust the responses though.

    The criticism of "just probability" falls flat as soon as you recognize current expert consensus is that humans minds are... predictive processors, based on scale free principles leading to layered Bayesian predictive models.

    Where LLMs struggle adapting to things outside of distribution (not in the training data) they do not have a way to actively update their weights and biases as they contextualize the growing novel context.

    Also novel context is basically inevitable when interacting with real life, because our environments and preferences are also growing, so, they lack something very important for correcting weak confabulations that collapsed the predictive process into action. There's also weird softmax/AI 'reasoning' fuzzyness helping to emulate some of the malleability of our more active ruminative, and very very social models.

    I usually get downvoted for going against the narrative, but remember we normalize to the tribal opinions around us to socially collapse our group predictive model, because nuance takes energy. But if you can't communicate, you can't learn, and you display the same lack of intelligence as confident LLM confabulations.

    I wish I heard people talking about this outside of strictly academic spaces, but communication channels need to be open.

    Keep your eyes out for AI that is diverse, but good at communication/translation/meditation and actively grows.

    Although you might see more like the genie3 stuff that is dealing with intermodal dissonance within a monolithic model perspective, which means always confabulating without using other models to actively balance and grow.

    Well, attempts are being made to make up for that, but you can see how RLHF leads to sycophantic models that will confirm your own confabulations so that you can confirm each other into delusion without other systems for grounding

  • It Took Many Years And Billions Of Dollars, But Microsoft Finally Invented A Calculator That Is Wrong Sometimes

    Jump

  • Then why aren't we going after streaming, which currently is much worse for the environment?

    Not that I don't agree it should be salient, and caps should definitely be put on big companies for this kind of stuff, generally, only doing it for AI is not really doing much, but people don't seem to care about actually improving thing rather than beating the tribal drum.

    I agree with the need for action, my issue is the direction and framing, especially part the socially reified misinformation. Musk is a good target while he is ignoring current standards for generators and the like, but the general dialogue around that is full of made up numbers and claims, and nobody cares because it serves the tribal preference.

    Like the idea that ai cuts and pastes existing work to make a new image. That's not how it works, and artists used to attack artists for the same style "theft" that just doesn't recognize how brains work, how human social learning works, or how art and styles develop over time.

    Also the energy for conversation is being wasted on these moot points, rather than the larger systemic issues.

    Also some of AI is being developed to directly counter that problem, but I don't see much advocating for it in these spaces,

    Rather it gets downvoted for "being AI," completely ignoring why AI was supposed to be a problem in the first place, and void of any active effort to improve things.

    Same communication issues affecting the socio-political sphere, which is why it's good to learn generally about intelligent systems and how they work.

    Like, how often do you hear people complain that AI is "just predictions systems" completely vacant of the understanding that we are all predictive systems, and predictive processing is the current general consensus in the nero-psych realm now. Etc.

    Basically, like most complex things, it feels impossible to talk about because the simplified social model dominates discourse, and everyone hates scientists for trying to bring annoying reality, and diverse perspectives into the conversation.

    I mean, learn about epistemics and you'll learn more about AI. Although being familiar with diverse perspectives, while appropriately untangling the dissonance of their differences is basically the core of both AI and sociology.

    But seeing artists get miffed because the Warner/Disney model of art economy might not be compatible with reality and positive growth of our species.

    I hope we can at least both agree, eat the rich and bring back more diverse systems that can check and balance each other.

  • It Took Many Years And Billions Of Dollars, But Microsoft Finally Invented A Calculator That Is Wrong Sometimes

    Jump

  • I'm extremely familiar, and definitely agree that the corpo paperclip maximizer will use any tool dishonestly if it helps them make paperclips. a lot of my critique is in the framing of the public dialogue, and how poorly informed much of it is. like with most things, it's definitely important to deal with the rich assholes lying, and using functional tools for evil. both are bad, in neither situation are the tools the problem.

    good example of elon musk lying about what his cars could do every year for the past decade, which i have heavily critiqued for as long as it's been happening. definitely a real issue!

    All i want is people not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Much like I don't think uninventing the loom would either help people or solve the issue, AI is similar.

    And the "scale only" people I mentioned are the only ones exclusively focused on llms, but nobody out there is just running a basic llm.

    Frankly, the AI I'm most excited about is being grown from the opposite end, as diverse distributed collaborative networks that actively adapt to the shape of the context.

    Honestly I think one of the most valuable things we will get that nobody talks about is functional mediators that can parse complex perspectival differences, enabling communications that have become difficult for our stupid tribal monkey species.

    My issue with AI critique is its usually ungrounded and focused on hating AI, rather than the corpos who do bad stuff with every tool that exists, and lie about everything.

    Even in more traditional AI models, they are currently right now doing things that are amazing, but people think they are just simple collage art stealing machines, with some confabulated interpretation of what it is doing.

    But that topic also gets into the history of the art industry, who currently owns the larger art market, and how people define art and artists.

    But if you actually address the issues, tribal ignorance ensures angry yelling rather than an actual attempt at learning what is being discussed.

    To be fair, people like jordon peterson make people think complexity is unlearnable, because they use it to obfuscate rather than elucidate. So there are definitely valid issues to talk about, but outside of "scale is everything," the focus on critiquing llms ignores every other part of AI, because they are harder to make people angry about. Unless you have a bunch of ignorant people who you can spur into the same stupid aggression that existed during the tumblr "you're stealing my style!" wars. Because they can't comprehend how art is all built socially, and nobody painted anime on cave walls.

    Complex issues, lot of rabbit holes, but ignorance and tribalism are currently the main shapes of actual critique.

    but i think developing functional intelligent systems will hinder bad actors more than they expect. see elon musk fighting to get his shitty llm to lie for him without also losing touch with everything else, picking and choosing where to ignore dissonance is a funny thing that humans are very susceptible to abusing.

    Hopefully that makes sense.