Azzu

If you cannot differentiate the German government from me or the people of Germany, then I can't help you. "Full" is something entirely different. I hate what my government is doing.

There is plenty of proletariat within the USA, Germany and Israel. Should they live long or die?

That is good and I did not know that.

I'm not even arguing for the things you're talking about, I'm just trying to bring some understanding. In literally none of the things I talked about, nor in what the feddit.org admins talked about, was there anything about keeping up unconditional support for Israel.

People might not see the stickied post, for whatever reason. I'm mostly on X hours top, which hides the thread if older than X hours. Or someone could just not use Lemmy for a week. There is no notification or similar, no email alert.

I absolutely agree with you, in fact I even said somewhere else in these comments that some of the stuff Israel is doing is on the same level or worse than what happened in Nazi Germany.

However, you said it literally yourself, it's not on the same scale (yet).

Also, if you read my original comment carefully, I'm personally not even agreeing with the way this issue is handled, in my opinion, go ahead, compare Israel to Nazis. My only goal was to create understanding, and show that no, feddit.org is not actually Zionist.

You again ignore that the "thing" I talk about is a "genocide", which is what is happening, and it is one of the worst things humans can do to each other and needs to be stopped at all costs.

You insist on not trying to understand, I'm done.

I do understand what you mean, however the attempted genocide that christians, jews and muslims are doing to each other is much older than any of that. You do not truly know anymore who started, the only thing I personally know is that the same way that a genocide against Palestinians needs to be stopped, so does a call for genocide against Israelis. Of course, due to other countries (including Germany) support of Israel, Palestine needs special protection and the immediate ceasing of all support to Israel.

What you do not see is that we don't truly disagree, I'm just trying to explain one of the multi-faceted thought patterns that go on in some people's brains. Multiple different concepts can co-exist at the same time, and do not necessarily contradict each other, like saying that the genocide in gaza needs to be stopped immediately and the genocide in Gaza and in the Holocaust not being the literal same.

The thing is called a thing and should be called a thing. I.e. genocide. All genocide needs to be stopped at almost any cost. I don't have any capacity to argue further, so many people are saying things.

The current one? Roughly around 1919 with the British support of an Israeli state.

Very difficult to say this for sure.

I agree, but the death toll for example is a potential way to measure it. But again, I never said that the genocide in Gaza should happen, in fact I want it to be stopped by almost any means necessary, like not a counter-genocide.

Is that applicable here on Lemmy?

I'm not providing any commentary about what should be done, I was just hoping to help people understand that feddit.org is not filled or run by Zionists.

Only while saying the people resisting it are also wrong

I've never said that the people resisting their genocide were wrong to do it. You're intentionally misinterpreting what I'm saying.

The original comment was good and correct

I don't disagree with you, that's why I tried to explain the nuance, but apparently I failed, I'm sorry about that.

ah yes the “im just following orders” defence the favorite of the saurkrauts

What I said had nothing to do with that. Anyway, I can't keep up with all the stuff people are saying to me, so please excuse if I don't elaborate further.

jews actually did fought back against being exterminated by the Nazis

What I mean was in the time before the Holocaust even started.

Do you not understand colonialism?

I'm completely aware that this originally started with the zionist invasion of palestine in the early 20th century.

“The Jews never fought back” is not what I said. Again, you intentionally try to misinterpret what I said. I was specifically talking about the time before the Holocaust even started, there was no reason for Germans to fear Jewish people, as they were just normal people.

Have you really not seen me multiple times calling the genocide in Gaza a genocide? The ability to recognize the genocide in Gaza as a genocide is very much there, you really can't see it?

You are trying to reduce my argument to one dimension that "sounds" reasonable, while ignoring things like it literally being in the charter of Hamas to destroy all Jewish people in Israel. And you're going to say it is the prerogative of Palestinians to fight back, and again I would completely agree with you. It just doesn't make much sense to argue with you, so I'm going to stop.

I don't disagree with your assessment that some kind of propaganda in support of zionism and maybe even genocide is happening. But if you really see support of genocide and zionism in what I personally just said, I really don't know what I could say to convince you. It seems you're not truly listening to me and trying to understand. I can just hope eventually you will see that there is no point to us fighting, and I wish you well.

Edit: and to say "Germans have learned literally nothing from the Holocaust" is just ridiculous. You're using false hyperbole to make Germans in general (who have very diverse political opinions individually!) seem like literal evil, and that simply helps no one except the ones that want us to fight.

You know full well that this is not relevant to the point I was making, and seems like arguing in bad faith. If so, then please reconsider being kind and rational.

If you are genuine, then: I hoped it was very obvious that I know that some of what Israel is doing is as bad, and worse than what happened in the Holocaust. That does not mean that the scale is the same, or that the situation leading up to this is the same. While very clear parallels can be seen, and the direction this is going is very clear as well, it is simply false that the genocide in Gaza is even in the same order of magnitude as the Holocaust yet. That does not mean that the genocide in Gaza isn't absolutely terrible, what I'm saying is that the Holocaust was just that bad. Is that enough amendment?

This all stems from a fundamental misunderstanding that no one seems to be interested in clearing up.

The original post that brought the allegations of feddit being zionist to more people is this one, and the one that originated the allegations is this one.

The feddit.org admin inside explicitly states that the removal of the comment being talked about by the original thread is not about pro-zionism or anti-semitism.

Now what does the person claim it is about? That seems to be majorly ignored. Let me rephrase it in my own words.

In Germany, after national socialism, we have very strict rules on how you are allowed to talk about it, because there were unfortunately a lot of people still denying it or not believing it. One of those rules is that no statement may be made that makes national socialism seem better than it was. So something you can't say for example is "Trump's ICE is national socialism!". This seems extremely weird from an outside (the person saying it's) perspective, because obviously, yes, the tactics Trump uses are directly borrowed from national socialism.

However, if you look at national socialism as a whole, it was much worse than just ICE. Millions were killed etc.

Now, the person who makes the statement "Trump's ICE is national socialism!" is obviously using it to express that ICE is terrible. But if you want to look at it from a certain way (which German law likes to do) it's also saying that they're roughly equal, which, since Trump and ICE is currently not quite at the level of full national socialism, would minimize the severity of national socialism by bringing it "down" to the same level as the Trump regime and ICE.

Obviously, from a perspective of a person today, this seems ridiculous, because the current threat is ICE and not national socialism, so who cares about "how national socialism is talked about exactly"?! Isn't it much more important to make sure that ICE is taken appropriately seriously? And you would of course be right. But the stance is that the ends do not justify the means, and it is very much possible to fight against ICE without comparing it to the whole of national socialism.

This is what is being talked about by the mods/admins. It has nothing to do with either anti-semitism or anti-zionism.

Now, if you say something like "Trump's ICE resembles early national socialism!", that is a completely fine statement to make in the eyes of the law. You are actually comparing ICE to what it actually is, "early [stages of] national socialism", and not "national socialism [in general]".

Feelings are running high, even as I type these words, I can imagine it. But please try to think about this stance for a moment and try to see that it is not Trump ICE apologist, or trying to minimize what ICE is doing. It is simply trying to pay heed to two important issues at the same time, of which one has much more immediacy and current real impact on people's lives than the other.

I used this ICE example on purpose because it is even nearer than the genocide in Gaza. And because it is farther away from "full national socialism style genocide". I hope I could make the thinking in this example clear, and I hope at least a modicum of rationality can be attributed to this.

And now let's go back to the original zionist accusations. The original comment was removed because of the last part of it, which said "Providing material support to Israel is no different from providing material support to Nazi Germany". As much as people don't want to see it, the situation in Gaza is actually different than the situation in Nazi Germany. The Jewish population in Nazi Germany never launched rockets at Germans, in fact, jewish people in Nazi Germany were exceptionally peaceful. In Gaza, there is genocide happening, there is a power differential, and Palestinians need to fight back, but there is simply no rational denying that it's not the same as the genocide in Nazi Germany.

Obviously what is happening in Gaza is terrible and Israel needs to be condemned, but what they're doing is still not on the same level of evil as Nazi Germany. And thus you could argue that comparing the situation in Gaza to national socialism is minimizing the severity of national socialism. And thus the same kind of argument applies as in the previous example with ICE, it just is even less understandable for a person who didn't know/understand/agree with this argument.

I'm basically sure I'll be condemned as a zionist now, or whatever, go ahead.

Azzu

@ Azzu @lemmy.dbzer0.com

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Creator of LULs (a script which helps links to point to your instance)
Come say hi here or over at https://twitch.tv/AzzuriteTV :) I like getting to know more people :)
Play games with me: https://steamcommunity.com/id/azzu

Azzu

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"

Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's "Zionist Bar Problem"