It’s literally never been a country in its entire history. It is a province of China, it is recognized internationally as a province of China. No one has ever recognized it as a separate country. It doesn’t have any legal standing as a separate country. It doesn’t claim to be a separate country. And anyone in Taiwan that tried to claim it was a separate country was killed by the leadership of Taiwan for 40 years, and anyone from Taiwan that left and tried to claim it was a separate country was a target of the government on Taiwan to silence them from trying to say Taiwan was a separate country.
The only people who think Taiwan is a separate country are Westerners trying to justify why the US should have lethal military force installed and ready 4 miles off the coast of mainland China.
It’s literally never been a country in its entire history.
This is factually wrong. There has been a native population with their own governance for most of its history.
There have been some smaller trading outposts from the mainland Chinese over the course of history, but the Portuguese and Dutch traders actually had more influence on the island than those Chinese traders who carefully avoided conflict with the native population.
The claim over the island by the Chinese empire ever only existed on paper until a brief period in the late 19th early 20th century when they tried to brutally colonize the island only to be shortly after overrun by the Japanese who happily took over the colony.
There has been a native population with their own governance for most of its history.
The Austronesians of the main island lived on a couple of other islands around the mainland, but their inhabitance did not match 1-to-1 with the borders of the province of Taiwan. I agree with you that there was a country (and a nation) that the indigenous Austronesians of the region comprise, but that county is not Taiwan and that nation is not Taiwanese.
There have been some smaller trading outposts from the mainland Chinese over the course of history, but the Portuguese and Dutch traders actually had more influence on the island than those Chinese traders who carefully avoided conflict with the native population.
Correct, the Han Chinese were not anywhere near as brutal colonizers as the Europeans were. The Dutch in particular hunted the Formosa sika deer nearly to extinction. What that shows, more than anything, is that the Europeans shouldn’t be trusted in any of their positions relative to the region since they’ve been violent psychotic extractivists for 6 centuries and their only motivations are their own personal enrichment and the total subjugation of everyone else.
The claim over the island by the Chinese empire ever only existed on paper until a brief period in the late 19th/early 20th century when they tried to brutally colonize the island
Half truths are the worst kind. The Chinese empire invaded the region specifically to kick out the Europeans. Like, it’s very explicit that the purpose of the invasion was to get rid of the Dutch East India Company. Europeans went out colonizing proactively and committing genocide because their pope said they should. The Ming invaded Formosa to get rid of foreign invaders. That wasn’t in the late 19th century. The Dutch surrendered in 1662. Ming China held Taiwan at that moment. Qing China held Taiwan 20 years later when the Ming loyalists officially surrendered. When that occurred, there was a debate as to whether or not they should maintain occupation of the island. Some argued it wasn’t worth it. But the argument that won day? If we don’t hold, the Europeans will come back, establish their military bases on it, and attack us. Does that sound familiar? Because it’s literally the exact same argument that’s being made 400 years later because the Eurocentric empire is STILL establishing military bases in the region with the intent of attacking the mainland.
The Han Chinese occupation of the island is a relationship of settler colonialism. The Austronesians are the indigenous. The Han Chinese that live in the province today are not entitled to a distinct national self-determination. They are part of the Chinese nation. Taiwan seceding from China would be even less legitimate than the European colonists seceding from England because the colonists were not operating as a 70-year protectorate of a world power on the other side of the world with ZERO legitimate claims or history in the region.
I would LOVE to see to Taiwan decolonized, the place names of the Austronesians reestablished, the nation of Austronesians self-determined and self-governing. But we’re not going to get that by having a bunch of comprador Han Chinese in the province align themselves with the most genocidal military in the world that continues to exterminate the culture of its own indigenous people. It’s only going to happen through successive resolutions of contradiction, starting with the end of the Eurocentric empire’s presence in the entire region, including The Phillipines, Indonesia, Korea, the province of Taiwan, and the Western Pacific ocean. When that happens, and China has organized Taiwan province under it’s centuries-long demonstrated and proven One Country Two Systems approach, then the conditions for addressing the colonial contradiction will emerge and the work can begin. But America ripping the Han Chinese into two countries, one of them a protectorate and a proxy and the other a mortal enemy, is just a continuation of 600 years of brutal European empire building and it needs to stop.
The Austronesians of the main island lived on a couple of other islands around the mainland, but their inhabitance did not match 1-to-1 with the borders of the province of Taiwan. I agree with you that there was a country (and a nation) that the indigenous Austronesians of the region comprise, but that county is not Taiwan and that nation is not Taiwanese.
Only semantics really.
The Ming invaded Formosa to get rid of foreign invaders. That wasn’t in the late 19th century. The Dutch surrendered in 1662.
This was a naval campaign involving a few outposts and never did anything about the majority of the island that was self governed by the native population, despite European and Chinese interference. But you are right that as a backwater it wasn’t really considered to be worth the hassle at the time.
This changed in 1874 as a reaction to a brief Japanese invasion, and the subsequent subjugation of the native population was indeed a settler colonial project by the Chinese that was continued by the Japanese when they took over in 1895. The Europeans also meddled with the status during the Sino-French war in 1883/84, but it was quite inconsequential.
The Han Chinese occupation of the island is a relationship of settler colonialism. The Austronesians are the indigenous. The Han Chinese that live in the province today are not entitled to a distinct national self-determination.
You are so close to getting it 😅 Taiwan was always an independent nation subject to various settler colonial efforts by the Chinese and others. The Chinese have no claim over the island whatsoever, neither the current administration of the mainland, nor the Kuomintang when they invaded and settled there.
I would LOVE to see to Taiwan decolonized, the place names of the Austronesians reestablished, the nation of Austronesians self-determined and self-governing.
And how exactly does further colonization by the Chinese mainland help with that goal? The Taiwanese nation is on the slow way of doing so, but they chose the peaceful way of integrating with the Han Chinese that settled there after WW2. Your focus on the specific Austronesian ethnicity is IMHO extremely racist, and restoring them as the sole inhabitants would be nothing short of a genocide of a large part of the current population that chose peaceful democratic coexistence in the last couple of decades.
how exactly does further colonization by the Chinese mainland help with [Taiwan decolonized, the place names of the Austronesians reestablished, the nation of Austronesians self-determined and self-governing]
Because of the way contradictory historical processes actually work. Chinese integration is not a process of colonization, it is a process of resolving the contradiction of Western imperialism. Western imperialism imposed a contradiction on top of the Han Chinese settler colonial contradiction. Resolving the Western imperial contradiction creates the conditions necessary to resolve the Han Chinese settler colonial contradiction.
Your focus on the specific Austronesian ethnicity is IMHO extremely racist, and restoring them as the sole inhabitants would be nothing short of a genocide of a large part of the current population that chose peaceful democratic coexistence in the last couple of decades.
I thought you just said that it was settler colonialism and not peaceful coexistence. Now suddenly saying that Han Chinese occupation is settlerdom is racist? That’s like saying it’s racist against white people to deny them sovereignty over the territories in the Western hemisphere. Stop the duplicitous pearl clutching. The 16 Austronesian nations of the major islands that comprise Taiwan province are not Taiwanese by nationality any more than the Lakota, Dakota, Seneca, and Navajo are American.
a large part of the current population that chose peaceful democratic coexistence in the last couple of decades
Peaceful coexistence under the “protection” of the most genocidal violent psychopathic military empire in the world. Listen, this would sound very compelling if it wasn’t for the fact that US defense analysts and officials have spent years talking about the Pacific Kill Chain, Kill Web, and Hellscape infrastructure they are trying to build on the island of Taiwan. It would be compelling if the US didn’t have special forces stationed 2 miles off the coast the mainland.
But if you actually look at what’s happening, your story of peaceful coexistence is a lie by omission. Yes, all of the people of the province want peaceful coexistence, as do all of the people and nations in China. And China is an incredibly peaceful nation - no bombs dropped since 1989, no boats fired on since 1988. The majority of the world understands that peaceful coexistence is only possible after the vast genocidal white supremacist Western empire falls and their military presence is removed from the four corners of the Earth. Taiwan has peaceful coexistence except for that little nagging problem of literally being part of a genocidal empire’s infrastructure for mass murder. I know it’s a little nit to pick, but I’m gonna pick it.
The Taiwanese nation is no longer ruled by the Kuomintang. There has been a peaceful transition to a democratic government that includes the native Taiwanese population and the local people with Han Chinese roots increasingly self-identify as Taiwanese. It isn’t perfect, and they are struggling with their settler colonial roots, but they are on the way of healing.
None of your geostrategic arguments justify in any shape or form the continued aggression by the Chinese government towards its peaceful neighbor Taiwan 🤷
Sorry what continued aggression? Do you mean bombing fishing boats with double tap strikes? Do you mean sending in death squads to terrorize the population? Do you mean sending guns, money, training, and logistical support to terrorist groups and separatists?
China is not acting aggressively towards the people of Taiwan, it is demonstrating combat readiness to the US empire who consistently states openly that they intend to turn Taiwan into military infrastructure that they will use to attack the mainland.
The fact that the Western media portrays this as aggression against Taiwan is a function of propaganda and not reality.
Pure whataboutism. And there is no realistic scenario that includes the US attacking China right now and there hasn’t been one in decades. The Taiwanese military infrastructure is purely defensive in nature.
Taiwan is subject to severe diplomatic repression, regular naval blockade drills and continued threats of invasion solely based denying their right to self-govern.
Nah dawg, maybe some of the people think that. Most of think that China just needs to fuck off. It is a country, it checks all the boxes required. I just don’t like the taste of boot leather
If you don’t like the taste of boot leather, why are you supporting the idea that the US military should be allowed to deployed military assets to threaten China, including stationing troops just off the coast of the mainland, in the same program of the US supporting a brutal military dictatorship for 40 years that killed and tortured people just for saying they think the civil war should end and the KMT should just surrender?
Or are you a fan of the Confederates and believe the South should rise again?
Oh the mental gymnastics, no not liking boot leather means not liking boot leather. Chinese or otherwise. I like countries living in peace. Taiwan wants to be alone then they should be. Why is it ok for China to threaten others but not the us? Why the double standards?
The CPC has literally stated, for 70 years, unchanging, that they recognize that the country needs healing, not violence, and that the only way they want Taiwan to be reintegrated is peacefully. The only statements they have ever issued, for 7 decades, about violence is that they will respond to any attempt to create the conditions for an existential military threat. The conflict between the losers of the civil war and the winners of the civil war has consistently been an internal conflict that the CPC fundamentally understands as something that must be resolved through peace and dialog. It is the US that has decided that Taiwan should be an unsinkable aircraft carrier, a staging area of US missiles, and part of the USA’s Pacific Kill Chain.
China has NEVER threatened military violence against the people of Taiwan. They have only ever demonstrated their military readiness to fight against US and European military build up in the province. Which of course has a long history, that you are probably aware of but can’t integrate into your worldview because you are smothered in Yellow Peril propaganda.
China hasn’t dropped a bomb in a conflict since 1989 - that’s 37 years. Meanwhile the US continues to say that they must “contain the threat of China” and they are building alliances in the region to “address the threat of China” while they literally destroy entire countries and commit acts of terror and war crimes wherever and whenever they want.
There is no double standard. There is one standard. The US is a mass murdering global beligerent. China is not. Defending against the USA is not the same as developing a kill chain to threaten China on the other side of the world. If China was doing the same things the USA was doing, then I would have a double standard. But China is not deploying missile systems and building air bases and barracks on Cuba. It’s not building military alliances with Canada and Mexico, or building a proxy state in Quebec. It’s not sending entire carrier groups to patrol the Gulf of Mexico.
There is no double standard here. China is the target of USA aggression. Framing China’s defensive build up and readiness as somehow equivalent is the same thing as saying that slaves slowly gathering an arsenal of weapons and building escape routes is the same thing as slave owners building an arsenal of weapons and building relationships with slave catchers.
Never claimed to be, but at least i dont rabidly defend colonial nations and their shittiness, like you do lol. Anyways as I said before. Have a great life! I wish you all the best
LOL, colonial nations. You’re a a goddamned anglophone from the EuroCentric world. You are projecting your heritage onto the political enemies of the Eurocentric empire.
I disagree with the empire but I believe all of their lies
It’s literally never been a country in its entire history. It is a province of China, it is recognized internationally as a province of China. No one has ever recognized it as a separate country. It doesn’t have any legal standing as a separate country. It doesn’t claim to be a separate country. And anyone in Taiwan that tried to claim it was a separate country was killed by the leadership of Taiwan for 40 years, and anyone from Taiwan that left and tried to claim it was a separate country was a target of the government on Taiwan to silence them from trying to say Taiwan was a separate country.
The only people who think Taiwan is a separate country are Westerners trying to justify why the US should have lethal military force installed and ready 4 miles off the coast of mainland China.
This is factually wrong. There has been a native population with their own governance for most of its history.
There have been some smaller trading outposts from the mainland Chinese over the course of history, but the Portuguese and Dutch traders actually had more influence on the island than those Chinese traders who carefully avoided conflict with the native population.
The claim over the island by the Chinese empire ever only existed on paper until a brief period in the late 19th
early 20thcentury when they tried to brutally colonize the island only to be shortly after overrun by the Japanese who happily took over the colony.The Austronesians of the main island lived on a couple of other islands around the mainland, but their inhabitance did not match 1-to-1 with the borders of the province of Taiwan. I agree with you that there was a country (and a nation) that the indigenous Austronesians of the region comprise, but that county is not Taiwan and that nation is not Taiwanese.
Correct, the Han Chinese were not anywhere near as brutal colonizers as the Europeans were. The Dutch in particular hunted the Formosa sika deer nearly to extinction. What that shows, more than anything, is that the Europeans shouldn’t be trusted in any of their positions relative to the region since they’ve been violent psychotic extractivists for 6 centuries and their only motivations are their own personal enrichment and the total subjugation of everyone else.
Half truths are the worst kind. The Chinese empire invaded the region specifically to kick out the Europeans. Like, it’s very explicit that the purpose of the invasion was to get rid of the Dutch East India Company. Europeans went out colonizing proactively and committing genocide because their pope said they should. The Ming invaded Formosa to get rid of foreign invaders. That wasn’t in the late 19th century. The Dutch surrendered in 1662. Ming China held Taiwan at that moment. Qing China held Taiwan 20 years later when the Ming loyalists officially surrendered. When that occurred, there was a debate as to whether or not they should maintain occupation of the island. Some argued it wasn’t worth it. But the argument that won day? If we don’t hold, the Europeans will come back, establish their military bases on it, and attack us. Does that sound familiar? Because it’s literally the exact same argument that’s being made 400 years later because the Eurocentric empire is STILL establishing military bases in the region with the intent of attacking the mainland.
The Han Chinese occupation of the island is a relationship of settler colonialism. The Austronesians are the indigenous. The Han Chinese that live in the province today are not entitled to a distinct national self-determination. They are part of the Chinese nation. Taiwan seceding from China would be even less legitimate than the European colonists seceding from England because the colonists were not operating as a 70-year protectorate of a world power on the other side of the world with ZERO legitimate claims or history in the region.
I would LOVE to see to Taiwan decolonized, the place names of the Austronesians reestablished, the nation of Austronesians self-determined and self-governing. But we’re not going to get that by having a bunch of comprador Han Chinese in the province align themselves with the most genocidal military in the world that continues to exterminate the culture of its own indigenous people. It’s only going to happen through successive resolutions of contradiction, starting with the end of the Eurocentric empire’s presence in the entire region, including The Phillipines, Indonesia, Korea, the province of Taiwan, and the Western Pacific ocean. When that happens, and China has organized Taiwan province under it’s centuries-long demonstrated and proven One Country Two Systems approach, then the conditions for addressing the colonial contradiction will emerge and the work can begin. But America ripping the Han Chinese into two countries, one of them a protectorate and a proxy and the other a mortal enemy, is just a continuation of 600 years of brutal European empire building and it needs to stop.
Only semantics really.
This was a naval campaign involving a few outposts and never did anything about the majority of the island that was self governed by the native population, despite European and Chinese interference. But you are right that as a backwater it wasn’t really considered to be worth the hassle at the time.
This changed in 1874 as a reaction to a brief Japanese invasion, and the subsequent subjugation of the native population was indeed a settler colonial project by the Chinese that was continued by the Japanese when they took over in 1895. The Europeans also meddled with the status during the Sino-French war in 1883/84, but it was quite inconsequential.
You are so close to getting it 😅 Taiwan was always an independent nation subject to various settler colonial efforts by the Chinese and others. The Chinese have no claim over the island whatsoever, neither the current administration of the mainland, nor the Kuomintang when they invaded and settled there.
And how exactly does further colonization by the Chinese mainland help with that goal? The Taiwanese nation is on the slow way of doing so, but they chose the peaceful way of integrating with the Han Chinese that settled there after WW2. Your focus on the specific Austronesian ethnicity is IMHO extremely racist, and restoring them as the sole inhabitants would be nothing short of a genocide of a large part of the current population that chose peaceful democratic coexistence in the last couple of decades.
Because of the way contradictory historical processes actually work. Chinese integration is not a process of colonization, it is a process of resolving the contradiction of Western imperialism. Western imperialism imposed a contradiction on top of the Han Chinese settler colonial contradiction. Resolving the Western imperial contradiction creates the conditions necessary to resolve the Han Chinese settler colonial contradiction.
I thought you just said that it was settler colonialism and not peaceful coexistence. Now suddenly saying that Han Chinese occupation is settlerdom is racist? That’s like saying it’s racist against white people to deny them sovereignty over the territories in the Western hemisphere. Stop the duplicitous pearl clutching. The 16 Austronesian nations of the major islands that comprise Taiwan province are not Taiwanese by nationality any more than the Lakota, Dakota, Seneca, and Navajo are American.
Peaceful coexistence under the “protection” of the most genocidal violent psychopathic military empire in the world. Listen, this would sound very compelling if it wasn’t for the fact that US defense analysts and officials have spent years talking about the Pacific Kill Chain, Kill Web, and Hellscape infrastructure they are trying to build on the island of Taiwan. It would be compelling if the US didn’t have special forces stationed 2 miles off the coast the mainland.
But if you actually look at what’s happening, your story of peaceful coexistence is a lie by omission. Yes, all of the people of the province want peaceful coexistence, as do all of the people and nations in China. And China is an incredibly peaceful nation - no bombs dropped since 1989, no boats fired on since 1988. The majority of the world understands that peaceful coexistence is only possible after the vast genocidal white supremacist Western empire falls and their military presence is removed from the four corners of the Earth. Taiwan has peaceful coexistence except for that little nagging problem of literally being part of a genocidal empire’s infrastructure for mass murder. I know it’s a little nit to pick, but I’m gonna pick it.
The Taiwanese nation is no longer ruled by the Kuomintang. There has been a peaceful transition to a democratic government that includes the native Taiwanese population and the local people with Han Chinese roots increasingly self-identify as Taiwanese. It isn’t perfect, and they are struggling with their settler colonial roots, but they are on the way of healing.
None of your geostrategic arguments justify in any shape or form the continued aggression by the Chinese government towards its peaceful neighbor Taiwan 🤷
Sorry what continued aggression? Do you mean bombing fishing boats with double tap strikes? Do you mean sending in death squads to terrorize the population? Do you mean sending guns, money, training, and logistical support to terrorist groups and separatists?
China is not acting aggressively towards the people of Taiwan, it is demonstrating combat readiness to the US empire who consistently states openly that they intend to turn Taiwan into military infrastructure that they will use to attack the mainland.
The fact that the Western media portrays this as aggression against Taiwan is a function of propaganda and not reality.
Pure whataboutism. And there is no realistic scenario that includes the US attacking China right now and there hasn’t been one in decades. The Taiwanese military infrastructure is purely defensive in nature.
Taiwan is subject to severe diplomatic repression, regular naval blockade drills and continued threats of invasion solely based denying their right to self-govern.
https://www.cnas.org/publications/reports/hellscape-for-taiwan
The Western idea of “defense” is genocide.
Nah dawg, maybe some of the people think that. Most of think that China just needs to fuck off. It is a country, it checks all the boxes required. I just don’t like the taste of boot leather
If you don’t like the taste of boot leather, why are you supporting the idea that the US military should be allowed to deployed military assets to threaten China, including stationing troops just off the coast of the mainland, in the same program of the US supporting a brutal military dictatorship for 40 years that killed and tortured people just for saying they think the civil war should end and the KMT should just surrender?
Or are you a fan of the Confederates and believe the South should rise again?
Oh the mental gymnastics, no not liking boot leather means not liking boot leather. Chinese or otherwise. I like countries living in peace. Taiwan wants to be alone then they should be. Why is it ok for China to threaten others but not the us? Why the double standards?
The CPC has literally stated, for 70 years, unchanging, that they recognize that the country needs healing, not violence, and that the only way they want Taiwan to be reintegrated is peacefully. The only statements they have ever issued, for 7 decades, about violence is that they will respond to any attempt to create the conditions for an existential military threat. The conflict between the losers of the civil war and the winners of the civil war has consistently been an internal conflict that the CPC fundamentally understands as something that must be resolved through peace and dialog. It is the US that has decided that Taiwan should be an unsinkable aircraft carrier, a staging area of US missiles, and part of the USA’s Pacific Kill Chain.
China has NEVER threatened military violence against the people of Taiwan. They have only ever demonstrated their military readiness to fight against US and European military build up in the province. Which of course has a long history, that you are probably aware of but can’t integrate into your worldview because you are smothered in Yellow Peril propaganda.
China hasn’t dropped a bomb in a conflict since 1989 - that’s 37 years. Meanwhile the US continues to say that they must “contain the threat of China” and they are building alliances in the region to “address the threat of China” while they literally destroy entire countries and commit acts of terror and war crimes wherever and whenever they want.
There is no double standard. There is one standard. The US is a mass murdering global beligerent. China is not. Defending against the USA is not the same as developing a kill chain to threaten China on the other side of the world. If China was doing the same things the USA was doing, then I would have a double standard. But China is not deploying missile systems and building air bases and barracks on Cuba. It’s not building military alliances with Canada and Mexico, or building a proxy state in Quebec. It’s not sending entire carrier groups to patrol the Gulf of Mexico.
There is no double standard here. China is the target of USA aggression. Framing China’s defensive build up and readiness as somehow equivalent is the same thing as saying that slaves slowly gathering an arsenal of weapons and building escape routes is the same thing as slave owners building an arsenal of weapons and building relationships with slave catchers.
Alright, clearly you are just regurgitating Chinese propaganda. Have a great life all the best to you!
Not the sharpest T00l in the shed
Never claimed to be, but at least i dont rabidly defend colonial nations and their shittiness, like you do lol. Anyways as I said before. Have a great life! I wish you all the best
LOL, colonial nations. You’re a a goddamned anglophone from the EuroCentric world. You are projecting your heritage onto the political enemies of the Eurocentric empire.