https://www.wikiart.org/en/giotto/st-francis-preaching-to-the-birds-1299
This is a proposal for an internal moderation alignment: recurring forms of anti-vegan discourse that exhibit anti-scientific reasoning patterns should be treated analogously to other forms of science denial (such as antivaccination rhetoric), and understood as incompatible with anarchist commitments to opposing domination and systemic harm.
The intent is not to prohibit disagreement with veganism as such. The distinction is between isolated critique and recurring patterns of reasoning and rhetoric that degrade discourse, misrepresent evidence, and function to stabilize harmful systems.

(Panthers of Bacchus Eating Grapes)
Epistemic Pattern: Directional Skepticism
Both anti-vegan and antivaccination discourses frequently follow a recognizable epistemic pattern. Skepticism—while foundational to scientific inquiry—is applied asymmetrically. Well-established scientific consensus, such as nutritional research on plant-based diets or immunological evidence around vaccines, is subjected to disproportionate scrutiny. At the same time, anecdotal evidence, marginal dissenting views, or non-expert commentary are elevated beyond their evidentiary weight.
This results in a consistent structure: systematic distrust of research institutions, selective reliance on outlier studies, and the framing of scientific consensus as ideological rather than evidence-based. What presents itself as skepticism is, in practice, a form of contrarianism that is not applied consistently.
From a moderation standpoint, this pattern is already widely recognized in other domains as characteristic of science denial. The proposal is to apply that same recognition consistently when it appears in anti-vegan discourse.
(The Large Blue Horses, by Franz Marc)
Anarchist Framework: Domination and Structural Harm
From an anarchist perspective, the issue is not only epistemic but material. Industrial animal agriculture constitutes a clear system of domination: it exerts total control over sentient beings, depends on exploitative labor conditions, and contributes significantly to environmental degradation. It is also a highly centralized and industrialized system that concentrates power while externalizing harm.
Anarchism is fundamentally concerned with opposing unjustified hierarchies and systems that reproduce coercion and suffering. On that basis, critique of animal agriculture is not peripheral but aligned with core anarchist commitments.
Anti-vegan discourse, particularly when it dismisses or derails these critiques, often functions to normalize and defend this system. By shifting attention away from structural harms and toward dismissal or trivialization, it reduces the visibility of domination rather than challenging it. In this sense, it is not merely a neutral disagreement but a position that frequently operates in tension with anarchist principles.

(Marc Chagall – I and the Village)
Convergence with Other Anti-Scientific Discourses
The comparison to antivaccination rhetoric is instructive at the level of function. Antivaccination discourse undermines collective health infrastructures that rely on cooperation and shared trust, disproportionately harming vulnerable populations. Anti-vegan discourse, when it follows the same epistemic patterns, undermines critique of large-scale systems of harm and redirects attention away from structural analysis.
In both cases, the effect is not to challenge power but to fragment collective capacity to respond to systemic issues. These forms of discourse tend to weaken coordinated responses to harm while leaving dominant structures intact.

(Henri Rousseau – The Dream)
Rhetorical Dynamics: Whataboutism and Derailment
A recurring feature of anti-vegan discourse is the use of whataboutism. Rather than engaging directly with ethical, environmental, or scientific claims, discussion is redirected toward unrelated or superficially comparable issues. These comparisons are rarely subjected to the same level of scrutiny or concern.
This produces a moving target that prevents sustained engagement and diffuses accountability. While it can resemble critique on the surface, in practice it functions as derailment. When used persistently, it disrupts evidence-based discussion and can reasonably be treated as a form of bad-faith engagement.

(Sue Coe – Dead Meat series)
Moderation Implications: Epistemic Integrity and Opposition to Harm
Moderation should not target viewpoints in the abstract, but it must address recurring patterns that degrade discourse and reinforce harmful systems.
Content that persistently misrepresents scientific consensus, elevates anecdote over reproducible evidence, dismisses expertise without substantiation, or relies on bad-faith rhetorical tactics should be treated in line with other forms of science denial when these patterns are clear and repeated.
From an anarchist standpoint, there is an additional justification for intervention. Allowing discourse that consistently functions to normalize or defend systems of domination—such as industrial animal agriculture—undermines the broader aim of opposing coercive and harmful structures. Similarly, tolerating anti-scientific reasoning that erodes collective understanding weakens the capacity for coordinated action against those systems.

Rebecca Horn – Unicorn (1970 performance/sculpture)
Implementation Approach
This framework does not need to be codified as an explicit or user-facing rule. It can function as an internal alignment principle guiding moderation decisions.
In practice, content that clearly reflects these patterns may be removed, and repeated engagement in such patterns may lead to escalating moderation actions, including bans. Isolated disagreement or good-faith critique remains permissible; persistent anti-scientific reasoning and bad-faith derailment do not.
The goal is consistency across domains: similar epistemic and rhetorical behaviors should be treated similarly, particularly when they contribute to the normalization of harm or the degradation of discourse.

Anubis as Defender of Osiris / Dionysus (?)
Some vegan comms that will offer you better info than I can:
- https://anarchist.nexus/c/vegan(!vegan@anarchist.nexus)
- https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/vegan@slrpnk.net (!vegan@slrpnk.net)
- https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/vegan@hexbear.net (!vegan@hexbear.net)
Some theory etc:
- https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-veganism-is-a-consumer-activity
- https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/gerfried-ambrosch-defending-veganism-defending-animal-rights
- https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/carl-tobias-frayne-the-anarchist-diet-vegetarianism-and-individualist-anarchism-in-early-20th-c
- https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/brian-a-dominick-animal-liberation-and-social-revolution
- https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/animal-liberation-is-climate-justice
- https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/flower-bomb-what-savages-we-must-be-vegans-without-morality
- https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-veganarchist-underground-veganarchy-anti-speciest-warfare-direct-action
- https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/len-tilburger-and-chris-p-kale-nailing-descartes-to-the-wall-animal-rights-veganism-and-punk-cu


would love to hear from people better informed on the matter than I am @Sunshine@anarchist.nexus @YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com @thisfro@slrpnk.net
I was thinking more of addressing trolls overall rather than being unscientific. Yes we have antivegan trolls that try to hide behind being “pro-science”, but the problem is that these trolls are trying to disrupt and drive people away. When they tell users you can’t prove animals don’t want to die, or that it is unhealthy to be vegan, or that you can’t prove animals suffer in factory farms, they’re going to eat extra meat since vegans were brought up, etc. in any thread mentioning veganism, they aren’t being genuine, they are trying to get a rise out of people. When you tell these same trolls “please leave me alone” or “stop replying to me multiple times” or “stop following me” users should expect mods or admins to help, but these users are often ignored or told it’s not against the rules because that’s not how a disengage works… even though it just looks like harassment of a user IMO. Vegans are told to keep vegan subjects to vegan communities/instances and to block antivegan trolls. Which after a while, just seems like no one cares about moderating trolls. I mean, I was the only one who noticed one of the trolls was moderating our vegan community, how does that happen? Edit: also they keep asking to mod the vegan community again 🫠
I thought about making a post about the trolling behavior overall, but one of the trolls admitted they have 100 alts and have no intention of stopping and that me doing anything about it would lead to me getting recalled so I wanted to take time off before that can of worms exploded. I was told that these trolls probably have ASD, which is weird because my loved ones with autism don’t spend every day trolling people with 100 accounts and threatening admins with a recall when told to knock it off. People have fed these trolls, including me, because talking it out doesn’t work with trolls. And at the moment, trolling is not explicitly disallowed in our rules. I know because when I argue for different types of trolls to get any type of punishment, it can be an uphill battle.
The behavior of the troll can be applied to more than just being antivegan or unscientific, it’s antisocial disruptive trolling. I was thinking of making a meta post about how the instance feels about trolling, the types of trolls they run into that they think are a problem, and such before a governance post as a sort of temp check. I know we have users that like to tell off right-wingers and libs so I don’t want it to be considered trolling to tell people to fuck off if someone says some vile shit. But the problem that I see is the trolling and harassment of what should be allies. For instance, if someone told me they just don’t want to be vegan, they like meat, they’ve never had a tasty vegan dish, blah blah, I don’t press for a ban because they are not trolling, and may be bad at cooking. Now if they did what I said before, that is trolling trying to get a rise out of people. Some instances take a more pro-vegan approach, which we could do if the users wanted that too, it is a bit of an adjacent subject.
Totally agree. There are some reasonable critiques regarding veganism, but mostly they are just issues with production in a capitalist system.