So, hundreds of millions, perhaps a few billion pawns die, governments collapse, new technofascist governments rise, or…

The global South, Eastern Bloc somehow pulls off saving whatever remains and the board is reset? Is that how this plays out?

These are certainly interesting times. ¡Viva la Revolución!

Crosspost from https://lemmygrad.ml/post/11435977

  • Maeve@kbin.earthOP
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    1 month ago

    Your original claim:

    Why did it wait for 2021 to fight the neo nazis? Why Putin talks about ukranian identity not existing claiming they are simply Russian? Why Putin keep talking about shared identity with Israel the worst type of nazis today?

    Which the interview clearly addressed.

    Then you claimed:

    Because during Tucker interview Putin talked about how ukraniain identity do not exists and that they are simply russians. I don’t see why the logic do not apply to other former ussr territories

    Refuted

    Nowhere in that interview did Putin say anything of the sort. Nor was he building up armed forces anywhere. He very patiently and pragmatically recounted history all the way back to the first century bce, and without revision. Nor did he revise any part of history until the day of the interview. Reread it yourself and copy and paste where he denied Ukraine identity.

    Then you claimed

    He willingfully omitted part of history where Ukrainian ancestors had a distinct culture and history before becoming part of an Russian empire . Putin logic is it was part of Russia therefore it should always be part of Russia. He do not want a distinct independent Ukrainian identity . It is very similar rhetoric to Zionist logic of jews existed before Muslims and Arabs in the land therefore that land always belong to Jews . The only difference is Putin want russification of Ukrainians while Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians from the land.

    Both Ukrainians and Russians originated from different branches of the Slavic tribes, but Ukrainians did not ‘break away’ from Russians. They are two distinct lineages that developed their own identities on different lands at the same time

    Nor was he building up armed forces anywhere

    I never claimed this

    He didn’t leave it out at all. He said it. Plainly.

    No you didn’t say it, you just claimed Russia wanted to invade their neighbors. They very clearly don’t, or would have already done it.

    You then said

    What’s the point of mentionning that Ukraine used to be part of Russia then?

    To which I answered:

    You’re moving goalposts, friend.

    The point is explained in the interview, very clearly. Perhaps you can reread it as a refresher. The separatist movement, which you already agreed was stirred by outside interests, is the point of mentioning it. So I ask you, what is the point of your circumlocution?

    Yes. Moving goalposts. I posted the full transcript, for anyone to read, including yourself. Perhaps your memory is faulty and you don’t care to admit it. Perhaps you have an emotional attachment to a fallacious argument. Perhaps you have an ulterior agenda. Who knows, because you refuse to address it and argue in circles. I’ve engaged in more than good faith and you’ve done nothing of the sort, despite several attempts to understand your wild, unfounded claims. If there were any valid reasoning, you’d state them. I’ve wasted enough time on your nonsense.

    • mrdown@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      The transcript confirm what I say. The history lesson that he mentionned that omit he fact that ukraine as a distinct group existed before being in any former russian kingdom is to claim that ukranians are just russians so they should be part of each other. Of course he would not say directly I want Ukraine and I will take it by force because politicians use vague language

        • mrdown@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          All the part about russian history is why I think what I think . If you have another prepesctive about why Putin mention Russian history in the topic of Ukraine please tell me

          • Maeve@kbin.earthOP
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            1 month ago

            I’m asking you to refute or add missing context, for several hours now and you refuse. Please do so, because all I can fathom is dishonesty+Bandarism/emotions/some other ulterior motive, and I’ve gone out of my way for hours to try to understand your perspective, which you refuse to clarify in any form or fashion, rather just keep repeating yourself and circumlocute, which hardly inspires confidence in your motives.

            Because honest history doesn’t happen in a vacuum.

            I have no problem admitting Columbus was a filthy imperialist and my state was built on the genocide of aboriginal people, chattel slavery, Jim Crow. Please reciprocate, concede, or simply drop the matter. I’m busy.

            • mrdown@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              The only dishonnest person here is you . I answered all your arguments while you refuse to answer questions that may change my mind

              Omitting the fact that an ukranian identity before joining a russian kingdom and talking about Russisn history which is irelevant to me is refuting the idea that Putin invasion was mere self defense or to fight nazis and any other bullshit. The worst nazi right now is Israel when is Putin going to save palestinians instead of tsking pride that the ussr was one of the first country to recognize the terrorist state of Israel

              • Maeve@kbin.earthOP
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                1 month ago

                The only dishonnest person here is you . I answered all your arguments while you refuse to answer questions that may change my mind.

                Holy shit, I’ve answered all of them.

                Omitting the fact that an ukranian identity before joining a russian kingdom and talking about Russisn history which is irelevant to me is refuting the idea that Putin invasion was mere self defense or to fight nazis and any other bullshit

                Are you a Bandarite, yes or no?

                The worst nazi right now is Israel when is Putin going to save palestinians instead of tsking pride that the ussr was one of the first country to recognize the terrorist state of Israel.

                Israel isn’t on Russia doorstep. Nazi Ukraine is.

                • mrdown@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  Holy shit, I’ve answered all of them.

                  You didn’t answer shit. Those are the question again

                  Why did it wait for 2021 to fight the neo Nazis? Why Putin talks about Ukrainian identity not existing claiming they are simply Russian? Why Putin keep talking about shared identity with Israel the worst type of Nazis today?

                  Putin is a long friend of Israel

                  Sharon said Putin is a true Israel’s friend. In 2011 Putin said “Israel is, in fact, a special state to us. It is practically a Russian-speaking country. Israel is one of the few foreign countries that can be called Russian-speaking. It’s apparent that more than half of the population speaks Russian”

                  During Operation Protective Edge in 2014, Putin stated that “I support Israel’s battle that is intended to keep its citizens protected”

                  In August 2014, Russia began increasing fruit imports from Israel, after banning food imports from the EU, Norway, United States, Canada and Australia.

                  In a meeting with Netanyahu in June 2016, Putin described Israel and Russia as “unconditional allies” in "efforts to counter international terrorism

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Russia_relations

                  Are you a Bandarite, yes or no?

                  No

                  Israel isn’t on Russia doorstep. Nazi Ukraine is.

                  Nazi Ukraine never attacked Russia. Like I said if nazis within Ukraine is not attacking foreign countries it is an Ukraine problem not a Russian one .

                  • Maeve@kbin.earthOP
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                    1 month ago

                    Nazi Ukraine never attacked Russia.

                    Neither did Israel, except in the 70s. They suffered badly, for it.

                    Like I said if nazis within Ukraine is not attacking foreign countries it is an Ukraine problem not a Russian one.

                    It was attacking Russians who never agreed to be Ukraine. We see it differently.

                    Why did it wait for 2021 to fight the neo Nazis?

                    Because it was seeking diplomatic solutions. Who first broke Minsk agreement? Russia was damned either way. They waited until they couldn’t.

                    Why Putin keep talking about shared identity with Israel…

                    1.5 million Russians in Israel, probably.

                    During Operation Protective Edge in 2014, Putin stated that “I support Israel’s battle that is intended to keep its citizens protected”

                    Putin is a long friend of Israel

                    Sharon said Putin is a true Israel’s friend. In 2011 Putin said “Israel is, in fact, a special state to us. It is practically a Russian-speaking country. Israel is one of the few foreign countries that can be called Russian-speaking. It’s apparent that more than half of the population speaks Russian”

                    During Operation Protective Edge in 2014, Putin stated that “I support Israel’s battle that is intended to keep its citizens protected”

                    We’re definitely in agreement, here. He should have hardened his heart against the 1.5 million Russians in Israel, which is, imo, probably why.

                    In August 2014, Russia began increasing fruit imports from Israel, after banning food imports from the EU, Norway, United States, Canada and Australia.

                    Any of those were a bargain with the devil. I speculate again it was for the Russian Israelis’ sake. Why do you think so?

                    Thanks for answering. I really appreciate it.