Greetings gamers and those who wisely abstain,
It has become clear to us that even in the short while we’ve federated, the situation with sh.itholefor.nazis is entirely untenable and we will be defederating immediately. Multiple instances of ableist and homophobic slurs directed at our users, overwhelming litigiousness against even the most innocuous comments by our users, and just a general ethos of reactionary behavior. We’re done and out.
One of the concerns with embracing TC69 thought on site bans with federation is that the user would basically be just hexbear-side hidden and blocked from our comms, free to post reactionary content without the fear of Lenin behind them. That was a silly concern. We will resume our pre-federation policies regarding site bans.
:07:
Yeah, I think we should try to be a bit more federated than just us and Lemmygrad, but obviously defederate with any instance tolerating bigoted behavior. I was always against the SJW since any contact I had with them pre-federation always gave me the vibes of the most
Lemmy instance. And, I think, they have been defederated already, but most of the tech oriented instances we were federated with in the past are also quite reactionary (e.g. programming.dev). Which sucks, but I think it would be best to just create an account on the other instances to see outside Linux communities rather than federation.But as long as other instances don’t whine and complain about being “brigaded” when called out on bigotry or have users DMing bigotry/harassment I think that we can maybe tolerate federation with instances more Lib than us (surprising that’s possible, I know). There’s always the “Local” button and blocking.
But with respect to the last point, I do think we should prioritize Hexbear being a cool place to hang out with comrades that is welcoming to everyone, over trying to bully Libs on other instances to be slightly less reactionary.
Lately it feels like the Hexbear solidarity has been at like 1000% which is amazing, but if our trans comrades are getting threatened and harassed like this- and it becomes a routine problem- I would much rather just be federated with lemme grad or other proven friendly communities exclusively.
Can’t wait to hear about this on
again accusing us of being sore losers that the bigots dont like us, rather than really caring about bigotry.One of the concerns with embracing TC69 thought on site bans with federation is that the user would basically be just hexbear-side hidden and blocked from our comms, free to post reactionary content without the fear of Lenin behind them. That was a silly concern. We will resume our pre-federation policies regarding site bans.
Call me a Dengist (
), but I think that continuing to uphold TC69 thought post-federation is a bad idea, and one which actively inhibits our ability to engage in ideological struggle with other instances. It had it’s time & place in kicking out stupidpol posters, and transphobic elements endogenous to the community when we were isolated from others; which was desirable at the time. However, we can’t exactly moderate other instances, or impose any real penalties on the users there, other than by inflicting our presence, and the mass of our voices & opinions on them; and making their instances hell for them to use.Of course we’re going to get pushback from doing that, and that’s going to take the form of them trying to harass our users & subject them to derogatory statements. But complaining about that (or at the very least using it as a justification to self-isolate our own community from other instances) is like complaining about the fact that fascists would fight back against you in a revolutionary situation. Of course they would do that, that’s intrinsic to the nature of revolutionary struggle. Shying away from that, means shying away from struggle.
In short, my position is that “A walled garden cannot prosecute a revolution.”, and so we should start thinking about ceasing to be one.
If I’m to receive an infraction for this take, I accept it, but I’m still gonna make the argument itself because I think it has merit.
If we’re actually trying to foment a revolution, keeping hexbear a safe space for having unmolested leftist discussions and coordinating brigading on other instances would be far more helpful. There’s no point in an unwalled garden if you’re gonna let everyone stomp all over the flowers.
There’s no point in an unwalled garden if you’re gonna let everyone stomp all over the flowers.
There’s a fair point to that. My main issue is that we’ve just reflexively defederated from every single instance that we’ve had any amount of ideological disagreement with at the drop of a hat, and I think that’s bad praxis.
If SJW is especially egregious then, whatever, but we did the same thing with Blahaj & a bunch of other instances which were much easier to agitate in. And IMO it speaks to an actual problem in our own instance culture.
IMO it speaks to an actual problem in our own instance culture.
i flatly disagree with this, and i’m kind of tired of the crusader crowd deriding everyone who doesn’t want to get conscripted into their cause. functionally every single defederation has been done once it was clear that the instance owners wouldn’t control the various flavors of bigotry that run amuck within them. banning bigotry is not an “actual problem in our culture,” it is our site culture. the subreddit is dead.
And let’s be clear, everyone there already wants to defederate with us. This was true for blahaj as well. It’s not like we’re just defederating from random instances out of a whim.
There’s a fair point to that. My main issue is that we’ve just reflexively defederated from every single instance that we’ve had any amount of ideological disagreement with at the drop of a hat, and I think that’s bad praxis.
No, both blahjai and sh.itjust.works already had defederation threads where everyone voted for defederation. This is just us beating them to the punch.
Disappointing. We picked up real support among some there.
All we are doing is isolating ourselves from ideological participation, and thus leaving the npc libs that are otherwise amenable to hearing our side at the mercy of fascists without opposition.
My position is that time should be allowed to play out to ban the fascists and clear house, this is a process that takes time when federating because initially there are a lot of them and they don’t all make themselves known at the same time. As time goes on however and more and more get added to the banlist the issue would die down, leaving out the fascists while leaving the npc libs still capable of hearing what the left has to say.
Yeah without federation hexbear probably dies. The past few months prior to federation were dire. So many pointless internal arguments and the amount of users and activity seemed to be dwindling. Getting back onto upstream Lemmy and some form of federation was desperately needed.
