• kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    3 months ago

    It makes sense when you realize that AnCaps are uneducated Anarchists who haven’t read political theory (they generally swap as soon as they do)

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Ancaps have different weights of the main criteria (which are the same set).

      Both employ voluntarism and, well, lack of hierarchy. But there’s such a thing as voluntary hierarchy. For ancaps voluntarism takes priority here, for the rest it doesn’t. All the differences stem from that single point.

      Other things aside, I think ancaps think about guns more often, so, eh, the pic would be inverted.

      • Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works
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        3 months ago

        I don’t fully understand how an anarcho-capitalist would put the “capitalist” part into practice under anarchy. Capitalism isn’t sustainable without regulation, imo. Whoever has the monopoly on force will have the monopoly on control.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          They use it in the meaning that many voluntary person-to-person interactions form a market, when property with which those are done is recognized. Nothing more specific.

          • Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            They use it in the meaning that many voluntary person-to-person interactions form a market

            It may be a market, but not all markets are capitalist. For a market to be capitalist it must be competitive [1].

            References
            1. “Capitalism”. Wikipedia. Accessed: 2024-08-19T00:00Z. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism.

              Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, price systems, private property, property rights recognition, self-interest, economic freedom, meritocracy, work ethic, consumer sovereignty, profit motive, entrepreneurship, commodification, voluntary exchange, wage labor, sustenance and the production of commodities.

            • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Until endless amount of interactions take the same from you as one, all such markets will be competitive. Sorry.

              • Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                I don’t think that I understand what you are trying to say. Would you mind clarifying what you meant in your comment?

                • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I said voluntary interactions form markets, you said only competitive markets form capitalism, thus voluntarism doesn’t necessarily mean capitalism.

                  But in real life a market formed by voluntary interactions is competitive, because our time and attention and emotional resource are limited. Even if natural resources, food and such were not.

                  I would agree that basic principles of ancap do not mean capitalism as leftists describe it. Actually every idea or description of how things would work in ancap involve solutions pretty similar to those left anarchists use.

                  And since these two ideas have the same set of actual limitations, and leave the same things to personal choice, I’d say there’s no technical difference, only ideological.

                  • Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works
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                    2 months ago

                    voluntary interactions form markets

                    Using the term as it is currently defined, not all markets need to be voluntary [1][2].

                    References
                    1. “Market: What It Means in Economics, Types, and Common Features”. Will Kenton. Investopedia. Published: 2024-07-28 (Accessed: 2024-08-22T03:10Z). https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/market.asp.

                      A market is any place where two or more parties can meet to engage in an economic transaction

                    2. “Market (economics)”. Wikipedia. Accessed: 2024-08-21T03:11Z. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_(economics).

                      In economics, a market is a composition of systems, institutions, procedures, social relations or infrastructures whereby parties engage in exchange.


                    you said only competitive markets form capitalism

                    Capitalism is defined to require that the markets be competitive [1], yes.

                    References
                    1. “Capitalism”. Wikipedia. Accessed: 2024-08-21T03:13Z. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism.

                      Central characteristics of capitalism include […] competitive markets […].


                    voluntarism doesn’t necessarily mean capitalism

                    Voluntary exchange is a central characteristic of capitalism [1].

                    References
                    1. “Capitalism”. Wikipedia. Accessed: 2024-08-21T03:17. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism.

                      Central characteristics of capitalism include […] voluntary exchange […].


                    But in real life a market formed by voluntary interactions is competitive

                    Not necessarily. For example, if the market were consumed by anti-competitive entities it is no longer competitive. An example of an anti-competitive entity could be a monopoly. Collusion is another example of a behavior which is not competitive.


                    I would agree that basic principles of ancap do not mean capitalism as leftists describe it.

                    How are you defining “leftist” in this context? Anecdotally, the average consensus of those that self-describe as leftists seems to be that they are anti-capitalist. Exactly what that belief entails is beyond my anecdote.


                    And since these two ideas have the same set of actual limitations, and leave the same things to personal choice, I’d say there’s no technical difference, only ideological.

                    What “two ideas” are you referring to here?