No. I’m saying that relying on that leverage completely, and expecting a fast and complete solution, and allowing the Gazians to starve to death if that hailmerry doesn’t work, is completely asinine.
And that’s not even taking into account what the absolute 180 on foreign policy WRT Isreal will cost us in the short and long term. It could very possibly give the entire election over to the Republicans. Which would obviously be even worse for Gaza.
They could have spent that two months pressuring Israel to open aid corridors for trucking.
And most likely have nothing to show for it. At least the dock has already achieved getting millions of pounds of aid into Gaza, and hopefully many more millions before it breaks again.
And I’m sorry, “we have to aid Israel in its genocide to stop the Republicans from winning” is a bullshit excuse.
Maybe to you, but it’s a real risk. Not everyone lives in this progressive bubble of yours. I have zero confidence in the voting public, and I have far less confidence that the Republicans won’t actively encourage genocide in Gaza and beyond given the president and a majority in the other branches.
See: the entire history of Isreal, and the middle east as a whole.
And if you feel that you need to aid another nation to continue slaughtering children to save your own, maybe you don’t have much worth saving.
Geo-politics are complicated, and more complicated when your own country is currently fighting a fascist movement.
You dismiss the very notion that all but declaring war on Isreal could possibly have negative effects on the Dems political standing. And let’s not mince words. Declaring no fly zones, DMZs and enacting sanctions, as you literally explicitly suggested, is one step away from declaring war.
And yet I’ve been accused of arguing in bad faith. Right.
I didn’t accuse you of arguing in bad faith, what are you talking about?
I did ask you for evidence, though, and you didn’t provide any, so maybe I should accuse you of that, but I have not done so, so I’m not sure why you’re suggesting I did.
There was a branch in this thread where someone else made the accusation. But fine, I retract the statement. It wasn’t your words, so no point bringing it up.
I find the request for impossible evidence to be absurd. Since the US did not take the measures you proposed 2 months ago, there is no evidence to present for either of our sides.
I point to Netanyahu’s recent and past decisions and complete unwillingness to make concessions, as well as how this conflict has been beneficial to his standing.
But obviously, we can’t know for sure what would have happened. But Isreal has never been known to be easily forced, or even compromise to anything not vastly in their favor.
I point to Netanyahu’s recent and past decisions and complete unwillingness to make concessions, as well as how this conflict has been beneficial to his standing.
All of which has been done because U.S. aid has been given unconditionally this entire time, which was my point. The U.S. has leverage and isn’t using it.
So you’re saying the U.S. has zero leverage on Israel?
No. I’m saying that relying on that leverage completely, and expecting a fast and complete solution, and allowing the Gazians to starve to death if that hailmerry doesn’t work, is completely asinine.
And that’s not even taking into account what the absolute 180 on foreign policy WRT Isreal will cost us in the short and long term. It could very possibly give the entire election over to the Republicans. Which would obviously be even worse for Gaza.
Fast and complete? This pier took two months to build. They could have spent that two months pressuring Israel to open aid corridors for trucking.
And I’m sorry, “we have to aid Israel in its genocide to stop the Republicans from winning” is a bullshit excuse.
And most likely have nothing to show for it. At least the dock has already achieved getting millions of pounds of aid into Gaza, and hopefully many more millions before it breaks again.
Maybe to you, but it’s a real risk. Not everyone lives in this progressive bubble of yours. I have zero confidence in the voting public, and I have far less confidence that the Republicans won’t actively encourage genocide in Gaza and beyond given the president and a majority in the other branches.
Why “most likely?” Based on what evidence?
And if you feel that you need to aid another nation to continue slaughtering children to save your own, maybe you don’t have much worth saving.
See: the entire history of Isreal, and the middle east as a whole.
Geo-politics are complicated, and more complicated when your own country is currently fighting a fascist movement.
You dismiss the very notion that all but declaring war on Isreal could possibly have negative effects on the Dems political standing. And let’s not mince words. Declaring no fly zones, DMZs and enacting sanctions, as you literally explicitly suggested, is one step away from declaring war.
And yet I’ve been accused of arguing in bad faith.Right.I didn’t accuse you of arguing in bad faith, what are you talking about?
I did ask you for evidence, though, and you didn’t provide any, so maybe I should accuse you of that, but I have not done so, so I’m not sure why you’re suggesting I did.
There was a branch in this thread where someone else made the accusation. But fine, I retract the statement. It wasn’t your words, so no point bringing it up.
I find the request for impossible evidence to be absurd. Since the US did not take the measures you proposed 2 months ago, there is no evidence to present for either of our sides.
I point to Netanyahu’s recent and past decisions and complete unwillingness to make concessions, as well as how this conflict has been beneficial to his standing.
But obviously, we can’t know for sure what would have happened. But Isreal has never been known to be easily forced, or even compromise to anything not vastly in their favor.
All of which has been done because U.S. aid has been given unconditionally this entire time, which was my point. The U.S. has leverage and isn’t using it.