One thing that I really dislike of him is that he constantly says that Israel has the right to exist. No socialist believes that a genocidal settler colonial state has the right to exist.

  • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
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    3 months ago

    https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/zohran-mamdani-stephen-colbert-israel-gaza-b2776390.html

    “Does the state of Israel have the right to exist?” the host asked him.

    “Yes, like all nations, I believe it has a right to exist – and a responsibility also to uphold international law,” he answered.

    “The conclusion I’ve come to, they’re the conclusions of Israeli historians like Amos Goldberg. They are echoing the words of an Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, who said just recently: ‘What we are doing in Gaza is a war of devastation.

    “‘It is cruel, it is indiscriminate, it is limitless, it is criminal killing of civilians.’ These are the conclusions I have come to.”

    That answer was also met with cheers and applause from Colbert’s audience.

    Mamdani was rebuked by the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum last week after he expressed the opinion that the slogan “globalize the intifada” was a legitimate expression of Palestinian advocacy.

    That’s not zionism.

    • Avatar of Vengeance@lemmy.mlBanned
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      3 months ago

      If you think that saying Israel is “like all nations” isn’t Zionism it sure explains a lot of the squishy left liberal discourse around this. Just divorced from reality because a couple of influencer shoved a mayoral candidate in your face. Not even a senator, not even an anemic presidential candidate. A fucking mayor of a city you don’t even like is making you compromise your principles. Sounds like you have none

      • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 months ago

        If you think that saying Israel is “like all nations”

        I’m not saying that, neither is he.

        Why are we not at least reading this guy’s statements in good faith?

        • Avatar of Vengeance@lemmy.mlBanned
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          3 months ago

          Getting things right in words alone is just the beginning, not something to write home about. To demand fealty from everyone far and wide over. When people are stuck defending the empty words of someone who does nothing it is a sad situation. Berniecels on suicide watch essentially. I don’t pity you people. Stop doing ActBlue donation drives. You are pathetic. Move to Vietnam or Russia.

    • ICBM@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 months ago

      It’s liberal zionism. AKA: “look, what the nazis are doing is bad, and we should condemn them, but the concentration camp has a right to exist”

      • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 months ago

        The guy saying “globalize the intifada” is not a zionist. Come on.

        that concentration camp has a right to exist

        He said the exact opposite of this. He directly criticized Israel’s indiscriminate killing of civilians.

        • ICBM@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 months ago

          Palestine has a right to exist, not the nazi colonial occupation that has been terrorizing it for over 75 years. Israel is the occupation that is erasing Palestine. There’s a huge difference. All zionists need to be put to death. Israel does not and has never had the right to exist. Palestinians have no desire to share their land with their oppressor ever again. Nor should dumb fucking both-sidesing liberals impose that on them.

          It’s very simple. The correct answer is “Palestine has a right to exist. Isreal does not and never has.”

          • darkernations@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 months ago

            It’s infuriating you’re having to explain this… on an ML forum.

            October 7th is a war crime… israel has a right to exist… endorsement from Sanders and AOC. So he’s getting crucified in the media as a milquetoast liberal for the DNC for saying the bare minimum against the genocide so what’s the grand fucking strategy here? Slowly coax USAmericans into being less violently bigoted? I am not critcising this person as a person (I don’t know him), I am critcising him as a politician. If the argument is that this is the best he can say otherwise he won’t be elected then that’s part of the problem and why MLs critcise bourgoise electoral politics.

            Yes what he is saying is significantly better than a lot of western politicians, and for a lot of westerners against the genocide that makes them feel better but so what? If you’re going to take a pro-palestenian stance then that means being pro-palestenian resistance fighters. Which in the US will mark you as a target for homeland security/ICE/various 3 letter agencies.

            Fucking tired of vibes based marxism afflicting westerners; I don’t have the patience to dissect their BS.

            • Avatar of Vengeance@lemmy.mlBanned
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              3 months ago

              Don’t bother, they’ll just use whatever new words you teach them to try to get more donations out of people, and then everyone will associate the words you taught then with useless fucking democrats

              • darkernations@lemmygrad.ml
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                3 months ago

                I’m at a point if someone calls themselves a marxist but they are a westerner whatever the colour (and I will include labour arisotcrats from the global south with similar tendancies) I’m going to assume they’re a radlib who has read/seen some marxist lit/vids. Like a lot of the justifications in this whole thread is essentially Proudhonism, which marx already dissected couple of centuries ago in rhe Poverty of philosophy. However, you don’t have to be a marxist to consider why this not some “ML purity” test; if someone used the milquetoast language to describe a group responsible for ethnic cleansing your loved ones there would be no doubt about how to feel about this. Only the privilege of a westerner can shield them from this instinct.

                • Avatar of Vengeance@lemmy.mlBanned
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                  3 months ago

                  “ML purity test” irked me too, bc the problem is - or the problem would be, if a NYC mayoral race mattered at all - that people are judging a candidate solely through their PR language and social media soundbites (although even in that department you can just look at the stuff about pushing more laws related to anti-semitism which he alleges has risen since 7 October 2023 and adjust your expectations based on that 🤨🤨🤨 this Mandami guy and that old SSanders coot are downright malicious) you have to look at progressive democrat candidates structurally, not just mindlessly support everything that makes reactionaries act like scared little Hitlers in their bunkkkers they’re getting too paranoid you’ll end up rooting for shadows on their walls. You’d think after learning a little bit more about progressive darlings such as Li⚡ Warren, Bernie SSander, and AOCIA they’d be a little more fastidious about where they devote their credibility or political energy through support or - I hate to say it but somebody has to say it - desperate sucking

          • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 months ago

            It’s very simple. The correct answer is “Palestine has a right to exist. Isreal does not and never has.”

            If you’re arguing there’s a better answer than the one he gave, that’s fine – just don’t wildly misrepresent what he said.

            As for whether your answer is actually better: if you leave it at what you wrote you play right into the bullshit “any criticism of Israel is a call for genocide” line. It’s a loaded question. A longer explanation would have to be too long and would never be included in the million attacks that would use the clip.

            I can see the argument for a stronger response, but I’m going to defer to the person actually out there getting their hands on state power over internet commenters.