This is like “respect is earned”.
No mother fucker, respect is the default. You’re supposed to respect everyone you meet. People can lose respect, and gain it back. But you don’t start at zero and earn your way to being respected. You respect every human you meet
That was the default at one point in human history. If you didn’t hunt or forage, you probably didn’t get to eat. Eventually humans discovered agriculture and figured out a small group of people could produce enough food for a large group of people. You’d assume that would then mean not everyone would need to labour for their food, but you’d be wrong!
How do babys survive? They can not hunt nor forage. Even more so we have remains of a person with Down sydrom who died in his mid 20s having been unable to walk on two legs for at least a decade before he died. So clearly unable to surive on his own. Also hunter gathers ususally work 15 hours a week. At least modern ones do that. Agriculture is able to provide food for more people, but tends to do so with a lot more work until relativly recently
How many hours a week working on fundamental science, art, entertainment, medicine, engineering, etc. If you drink from the fountain of modern society, you get the benefits and you share the burden of the costs.
Life is unfair. There are no free rides, nor should there be.
Life is unfair. There are no free rides, nor should there be.
And this attitude is exactly why life is unfair. Doesn’t have to be like this, there’s other ways of organizing societies than “fuck you, I got mine” and not just hypothetically; welfare systems are a thing in many countries you know. Or at least were until relatively recently, thanks to people who think like you.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news my dude. I didnt make it this way. I assure you what I think doesn’t amount to squat.
Sitting around and wishing for the good old days is just an insane notion of looking at the past with zero appreciation for the magic of the modern world.
I wish the world was fair, truly. It sucks, but realism feels like a better place to hang my hat.
Yes, better just lie down and take it rather than aspire for something better
That does seem to be what ‘antiwork’ is about.
NO U
That is not the default.
Most forager cultures are based around sharing, and everybody’s property rights usually include the right to use all of the group’s territory, and a share of all food that was gotten in large amounts like large prey etc. [1] The amount of labor needed for feeding people increased a lot with agriculture[1][2]; in most forager cultures you’d have people with a variety of different roles, anything from child and elder care, to tool making, to cooking etc. – and even some people who basically don’t do jack shit. Their concept of property and ownership was often different, so this’ll sound surprising in today’s culture where you need to earn a right to live.
Agriculture was initially only really good for population growth and rulers (easy to tax production), but it absolutely didn’t make anybody’s life easier or better for a long time when compared to foragers. In addition to taking a lot more work than foraging, it also led to diets getting much worse, a higher incidence of viral outbreaks due to more people living closer together for longer times, and a bunch of other problems, ultimately leading to early sedentary cultures having shorter life spans compared to foragers [1][3]
My sourcing isn’t extensive because this isn’t a scientific article 😁 just for the main points so people can verify I’m not pulling this out of my ass.
- [1] The Neolithic Agricultural Revolution and the Origins of Private Property, Journal of Political Economy
- [2] Persistent Controversies about the Neolithic Revolution, Journal of Historical Archaeology & Anthropological Sciences
- [3] The agricultural revolution as environmental catastrophe: Implications for health and lifestyle in the Holocene, Quaternary International
Fair points, but also a bit moot. We can’t stop agriculture and go back to tribal hunting, we are entirely too many people on earth and we have already hunted many species to extinction. I’m also fairly sure we wouldn’t have remotely enough “wild” growth of food and game to sustain our global population. All that would do now is cause famine and wars. And probably the extinction of many more animal species.
Where did I say we need to stop agriculture? I said that early sedentary cultures were worse off compared to foragers.
My point was that the claim that humans have always needed to earn a right to live isn’t true, and now everybody’s somehow convinced that I think we need to go back to being foragers
Fair enough, perhaps i misinterpreted your intent. Though I am confused why that needs a lot of evidence, isnt that obvious to anyone who thinks about the subject for a minute? I mean I fully agree with your intent, i am just surprised you consider that such a controversial position that you are coming in full force with reference links, on Lemmy, where the audience will overwhelmingly agree with you already, by virtue of being very left leaning themselves. Good on you though ✊
Considering the person I was replying to was claiming the exact opposite, I really don’t understand where your confusion comes from.
I write sources down for all sorts of stuff in my personal notes, and this myth has come up often enough that I’ve got more than a few links. I’d rather provide sources than just go “trust me bro”, let alone assume everybody agrees with me especially when it’s bleedin’ obvious everybody doesn’t
True, but agriculture and herding made stable civilizations possible. Hunting and gathering meant you had to go where the food was, and if you overhunted or overgathered, or your staple foods got wiped out by disease/famine/natural disaster/etc then your society was probably just done.
Writing only comes into existence after the first cities are established. Arguably, the ability to share knowledge in this way has improved quality of life for everyone (not just rulers).
Sure, like I said, agriculture is great if you want to grow your population a lot, and I’m not saying life isn’t better now because of agriculture – just that it took a long while for that to become true and early sedentary cultures were usually worse off than the foragers.
Famines obviously didn’t stop being a thing after agriculture, and I’m fairly sure they increased as you’d have groups of people who are much more reliant on just one crop instead of a variety of sources.
