Some biographers have actually argued that George Martin was properly the third Beatle, based on his critical song contributions.

And… you know what? That’s actually quite a strong argument as I personally see it. I mean, Sir George wasn’t just the one who discovered them in the studio sense, but he really did help morph their music over the years, as well as contribute an utter, direct landslide of musical creativity to their songs, things which are well and highly-documented across a load of sources & histories.

That said, for my part, Brian Epstein was an absolute boss. I don’t see how he’s outside the core.

  • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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    25 days ago

    Martin was absolutely key to the Beatles creating innovative music while being incapable of creating innovative music on his own. It’s like his formal training constrained his ideas but those same constraints were critical to shape the Beatles music.

    • JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.socialOP
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      25 days ago

      incapable of creating innovative music on his own

      I find that a very strange claim.

      You look at the biographies, facts & realities upon his contributions, and it’s… just breathtaking, really. Fact is, he arguably shaped the Beatles like few others could have done. The studio notes upon all that are legion…

      • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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        25 days ago

        As I said, his controlling and shaping the Beatles was critical to what we know as “The Beatles”. However if you listen to his own compositions such as most of side 2 of Yellow Submarine, it is completely unremarkable.

        If he could have been a Paul McCartney for composition AND had his vast formal musical training and natural talent, don’t you think he would have released something like Sgt Pepper as a solo artist after the Beatles broke up?

        In the same sense, none of the Beatles released anything like Revolver or Pepper after breaking up because it required all of their inputs.

        • JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.socialOP
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          25 days ago

          Again, you look at the facts, and Martin contributed a load of creative content to the Beatles, far in excess of Yellow Submarine. Some examples:

          • added the string quartet and composed their voicings on “Yesterday”
          • wrote the famous double-string-quartet arrangement on “Eleanor Rigby”
          • wrote the Western string orchestration and adapted it to “Within You Without You”
          • added and composed the 26-piece orchestra and vocal ensemble to “Good Night”
          • composed and performed the famous keyboard solo on “In My Life”
          • arranged and scored the piccolo solo on “Penny Lane”
          • this might deserve its own post / chapter, but he created from scratch the vast, lavish orchestral bridge between L&M’s two sections on “Day in the Life”

          And so on. I understand he also doubled (or tripled or whatever) as session musician on a load of songs. Some examples: Mr. Kite, Lovely Rita, Getting Better and a boatload of others.

          So this is the stuff I’m talking about-- Martin’s role went considerably beyond the traditional role of producer in to frequent player and composer across all kinds of Beatles songs. Compare to Ringo, who was a super-professional drummer, but arguably not as key as Martin, and George, who certainly came in to his own as a creative force, but did so later in the band’s life and in his solo recordings. Again, not as key as Martin.

          All contributing to my opinion that George Martin was in fact the 3rd Beatle, in terms of the old debate.

          …don’t you think he would have released something like Sgt Pepper as a solo artist after the Beatles broke up?

          I think you kind of answered your own question on that one. His natural element was orchestral works AFAIK, but he happened to be an unusually gifted producer. Those were his two major areas of interest, musically, so the idea that he’d be putting out records in the style of Sgt Pepper all by himself seems like… quite the reach.