I actually live in the US. I have family that voted for him. They’re not desperate in the way you think they are. They’re all some combination of dumb, ignorant, or the worst of the bunch, the actually evil.
I tried to befriend them, to convince them that the enemy is not what they thought it was. I spent ten fucking years doing that shit. But in the end:
My cousin is dumb, he votes for trump because he thinks trump is an uneducated everyman like himself “He speaks the way I speak.”
My aunt is evil, she votes for trump because he makes her stock portfolio look good, damn the consequences “I voted for trump because we all need to vote for our own best interests.”
My grandma is ignorant, she doesn’t understand the way the world works today, things have changed too much from her generation to really grasp it “I voted for trump because the world is a scary place, and we need his security.”
All three are evil in their own way. My grandma never took the time to consider the viewpoint of others, no matter how many times she was given opportunity. My cousin never learned, or trusted in those that knew more than him on a subject. My aunt, the most vile of them all decided that she didn’t care enough about her kids and grandchildren, and that the bottom line was all that mattered.
There is no convincing these people. As another commenter said? Fuck em.
One day they will wake up, and realize that actions had consequences, and it’s far too late to take it back.
Raised in an evil culture. Christian Nationalism, White Supremacy, prosperity gospel, the Anerican myth of rugged individualism, there are many avenues but the main pressure is the same: they value only themselves or people closely aligned with them and believe personal gain is the most important goal. Or they’re the delusional cultists, the true believers that genuinely think they’re fighting a war for God in some way.
Raised in an evil culture is how most Republican voters end up being Republican voters. But I’d like to add that being raised in an evil culture is not an excuse for remaining evil as an adult.
Part of adulthood is accepting responsibility for your character and not continuing to blame your faults on your upbringing.
There are many people raised in religious households that grow up to not be religious. And religions are an EXTREMELY entrenched form of cult culture. So it’s totally possible to break free of programming.
I just don’t want to give conservatives an easy out to blame others. They don’t deserve it.
And that’s why I think people are able to convinced by discussion. It might take some time and it might be difficult but they are still human at the core. I don’t think people like this should get a platform but it is necessary to push against the spread of hatred and the deeply ingrained propaganda. It is difficult but not impossible.
Not worth the effort. Fix their children by supporting public education and fighting the sources of propaganda. Push for laws about what is allowed to be said in the news, punish lying or fraud.
Changing the mind of an adult who is not trying to change is close to impossible. One of the first steps in breaking indoctrination is cutting off from the source and any connected social ties or they’ll just get dragged back in. And those social ties make them feel good, they feel validated and important when their community agrees. You can’t fight that.
Yep, it’s frustrating, having had plenty of theological and ethical debate in my life was enough to convince myself to not bother talking to these people, it’s an act of futility, a waste of your own good time
I’ll challenge stupid-ass ideas in public spaces. Not because I think it makes a difference for the source but just to ensure other people see an alternative. Theological and ethical debates can be fun and rewarding with people you share mutual respect, not with anonymous jackasses looking to get a rise out of folks.
Push for laws about what is allowed to be said in the news, punish lying or fraud.
Yeah, there’s really no getting better until we clean up our media. You can’t have a functional democracy while having unrestrained propaganda networks. The two simply can’t co-exist.
It’s been over a decade and they’ve had mountains of facts dumped on them and it hasn’t moved the needle. The only thing that’s changing them is if they end up being personally affected by their own actions. And even then, they tend to just default to blaming liberals/democrats for their self-induced problems.
they are still human at the core
And? Plenty of irredeemably evil humans have existing throughout human history.
Democracy requires education / free press, modest prosperity and peace. We don’t have those any more. A socialist slogan: fascism is capitalism in decay. Also let the system and institutions rot. We know our election systems are garbage.
If you divide the population into a smarter and a stupider half (however you want to define that) the stupid half will always be easier to manipulate, distract, less able to foresee and understand the consequences of policy and decisions. Is it their fault that we let them be brainwashed with evil ideology and religion?
Advertising / public relations / brainwashing is a technology that significantly advanced. We didn’t. Those with money or power can hire the smartest people to make fool of us all.
Hierarchical systems require people to advance and each step filters who advances and who doesn’t. Instead of a meritocracy, it leads to selfish people who are solely focused on advancement at the expense of anything else like empathy, loyalty, education, truth etc. If you can’t play this game you loose. The larger the hierarchy, the worst scum you end up with at the top. And those at the top set the rules of society.
Democracy is fundamentally incompatible with capitalism. But the vast majority of people still believe in (neo)liberalism and the free market to somehow “as if by invisible hand” guide humanity towards a brighter future. Trump voters are stupid, agreed, but there is a lot of stupidity left for the rest of them.
Exactly, we got trump because he’s the president we deserve. I can’t count on one the amout of people i see throwing trahs out their window while driving, they dont give a fuck about this country at all, they just pretend to because it helps them make more money. If trump actually brings this country down, they’ll just fucking move to another country they own property in and cry about how the democrats ruined america.
I actually live in the US. I have family that voted for him. They’re not desperate in the way you think they are. They’re all some combination of dumb, ignorant, or the worst of the bunch, the actually evil.
I tried to befriend them, to convince them that the enemy is not what they thought it was. I spent ten fucking years doing that shit. But in the end:
My cousin is dumb, he votes for trump because he thinks trump is an uneducated everyman like himself “He speaks the way I speak.”
My aunt is evil, she votes for trump because he makes her stock portfolio look good, damn the consequences “I voted for trump because we all need to vote for our own best interests.”
My grandma is ignorant, she doesn’t understand the way the world works today, things have changed too much from her generation to really grasp it “I voted for trump because the world is a scary place, and we need his security.”
All three are evil in their own way. My grandma never took the time to consider the viewpoint of others, no matter how many times she was given opportunity. My cousin never learned, or trusted in those that knew more than him on a subject. My aunt, the most vile of them all decided that she didn’t care enough about her kids and grandchildren, and that the bottom line was all that mattered.
There is no convincing these people. As another commenter said? Fuck em.
One day they will wake up, and realize that actions had consequences, and it’s far too late to take it back.
I know exactly these issues myself. It’s the same in Germany with AFD voters.
Why do you think your family believes that way? Do you think they were born that way/ born evil?
Raised in an evil culture. Christian Nationalism, White Supremacy, prosperity gospel, the Anerican myth of rugged individualism, there are many avenues but the main pressure is the same: they value only themselves or people closely aligned with them and believe personal gain is the most important goal. Or they’re the delusional cultists, the true believers that genuinely think they’re fighting a war for God in some way.
Raised in an evil culture is how most Republican voters end up being Republican voters. But I’d like to add that being raised in an evil culture is not an excuse for remaining evil as an adult.
Part of adulthood is accepting responsibility for your character and not continuing to blame your faults on your upbringing.
There are many people raised in religious households that grow up to not be religious. And religions are an EXTREMELY entrenched form of cult culture. So it’s totally possible to break free of programming.
I just don’t want to give conservatives an easy out to blame others. They don’t deserve it.
And that’s why I think people are able to convinced by discussion. It might take some time and it might be difficult but they are still human at the core. I don’t think people like this should get a platform but it is necessary to push against the spread of hatred and the deeply ingrained propaganda. It is difficult but not impossible.
Not worth the effort. Fix their children by supporting public education and fighting the sources of propaganda. Push for laws about what is allowed to be said in the news, punish lying or fraud.
Changing the mind of an adult who is not trying to change is close to impossible. One of the first steps in breaking indoctrination is cutting off from the source and any connected social ties or they’ll just get dragged back in. And those social ties make them feel good, they feel validated and important when their community agrees. You can’t fight that.
Yep, it’s frustrating, having had plenty of theological and ethical debate in my life was enough to convince myself to not bother talking to these people, it’s an act of futility, a waste of your own good time
I’ll challenge stupid-ass ideas in public spaces. Not because I think it makes a difference for the source but just to ensure other people see an alternative. Theological and ethical debates can be fun and rewarding with people you share mutual respect, not with anonymous jackasses looking to get a rise out of folks.
Yeah, there’s really no getting better until we clean up our media. You can’t have a functional democracy while having unrestrained propaganda networks. The two simply can’t co-exist.
It’s been over a decade and they’ve had mountains of facts dumped on them and it hasn’t moved the needle. The only thing that’s changing them is if they end up being personally affected by their own actions. And even then, they tend to just default to blaming liberals/democrats for their self-induced problems.
And? Plenty of irredeemably evil humans have existing throughout human history.
Democracy requires education / free press, modest prosperity and peace. We don’t have those any more. A socialist slogan: fascism is capitalism in decay. Also let the system and institutions rot. We know our election systems are garbage.
If you divide the population into a smarter and a stupider half (however you want to define that) the stupid half will always be easier to manipulate, distract, less able to foresee and understand the consequences of policy and decisions. Is it their fault that we let them be brainwashed with evil ideology and religion?
Advertising / public relations / brainwashing is a technology that significantly advanced. We didn’t. Those with money or power can hire the smartest people to make fool of us all.
Hierarchical systems require people to advance and each step filters who advances and who doesn’t. Instead of a meritocracy, it leads to selfish people who are solely focused on advancement at the expense of anything else like empathy, loyalty, education, truth etc. If you can’t play this game you loose. The larger the hierarchy, the worst scum you end up with at the top. And those at the top set the rules of society.
Democracy is fundamentally incompatible with capitalism. But the vast majority of people still believe in (neo)liberalism and the free market to somehow “as if by invisible hand” guide humanity towards a brighter future. Trump voters are stupid, agreed, but there is a lot of stupidity left for the rest of them.
Exactly, we got trump because he’s the president we deserve. I can’t count on one the amout of people i see throwing trahs out their window while driving, they dont give a fuck about this country at all, they just pretend to because it helps them make more money. If trump actually brings this country down, they’ll just fucking move to another country they own property in and cry about how the democrats ruined america.