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platypus_plumba

@ platypus_plumba @lemmy.world

Posts
1
Comments
242
Joined
2 yr. ago

  • My problem with atheism

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  • Yeah, I guess it really comes down to semantics.

    Does "I don't believe" mean "I believe there is no god" or "I don't have a belief"? I think there is a very important distinction here. The first one says "based on my experience, I think it is unlikely there is a god". The second one says "I really don't believe anything about it, one way or the other".

    My point targets the first one. The experience and evidence built by humans is just relatively insignificant... This is my problem with this line of thought. "There is no evidence" doesn't give any degree of confidence at all when it comes to this matter. There no evidence for most of the things that make reality exist, and yet here we are.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • "There is no precedence for the existence of deities"

    What makes you think humans have the capacity to perceive or understand deities?

    It feels like you guys are really not understanding my point. Please put human existence into perspective and tell me how much we really know. Now, how much is there to know?

    It's like a blind person saying color doesn't exist because he can't experience it. You see? Humans will live and die in the relative blink of an eye. Chances are we won't really get to know what's actually going on. Right now we don't really know, so having any opinion about what's happening based on lack of evidence is really pointless. We have no evidence for most things that are actually happening in the universe.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • It is outside of our current reach. Maybe in the future we'll have actual knowledge and have a solid opinion based on evidence. For now, believing anything, one way or the other is just pointless.

    Again, my understanding was that most atheists believed "the is no god". Most people are telling me that this isn't the case. So my main assumption was wrong.

    If saying "I have no belief one way or the other" is something an atheist could say, then I might be an atheist. I just didn't agree with the "there is no god" type of argument. "There is no god because there's no evidence so far" or "There is no god because religions contradict themselves". I think the origin of the universe and the concept of a creator are much deeper than the religions people built. Also deeper than our current scientific understanding of reality.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • Hm, I've talked with people who self-label themselves as atheists and they seem to be sure there is no god. Maybe I talked to the type of atheist that is just a minority.

    In all these replies I've been told that most atheists just don't believe anything and if that is the case, I'm aligned with that and now I've learned that I can consider myself atheist.

    I just don't waste time believing stuff that can't be verified, one way or the other.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • Based on our understanding of human history, we KNOW that toasters were created on earth and that it is unlikely one is in orbit on the sun... This is based on knowledge. Even if based on knowledge, I could be wrong.

    Now, what do you KNOW about the creation of the universe or the nature of reality?

    This is my whole point. I'm not saying it is wrong to have solid opinions about some things. I'm saying it is wrong having solid opinions about things we really don't understand.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • Something rooted in reason can be a wild guess when the reasoning isn't mature enough to handle the subject. This is a subject that is out of our reach.

    As you already pointed out, not all atheists think "God doesn't exist". My last paragraph was aimed towards religious people and atheists that have a solid opinion. I don't think accepting ignorance is something bad, I advice to do it whenever possible.

    Saying "I don't know" or "you don't know" is much better IMO. In reality we don't know and can't know.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • If you don't care and you don't make claims about the existence of a creator, we're on the same page. When there's no evidence proving or disproving something, it isn't logical to take sides.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • I agree with all of them. I feel both sides have the problem of belief. "May or may not exist", as you said.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • I'll play along. When I ask myself that question I immediately answer "I don't believe", just because I've conditioned myself to answer that over the years. The same way I answered "I believe" when I was conditioned during my childhood.

    My point is that choosing sides is a fallacy, it's something very human though. Over the past years I've realized that I don't need to take sides and that I'm better off accepting when I just don't know something, just avoid having opinions about matters that I can't understand.

    But yes, I still answer "I don't believe" internally. Hopefully I'll learn to turn "I don't know" into my instinctual answer.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • If most atheists identify with "lack of belief" and not "believe God doesn't exist" then I don't have much else to say because I think that pretty much describes myself. I just don't have a belief, I don't support or reject.

    I feel that even if evidence is not given, we can't rule something as false. Let's assume the idea of God wasn't impossible to deny or prove. Do you think lack of evidence provided by humans, little animals who live in a dust spec for a relative short amount of time, gives you enough confidence to say "there is no creator"?

    That is exactly my issue with atheism, that they think their human reason gives them enough capacity to take a position to something as complex as the origin of reality. It feels to me like an ant taking a position on quantum mechanics. It's just outside of our reach. Anything we choose to believe, even if rooted in reason, is a wild guess.

    The most rational thing to do is just to stop guessing. I feel if people accepted their ignorance more frequently instead of taking sides without actual knowledge, the world would be a better place.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • Yeah, we can be certain about some things. I don't think humans with their current capacity can be certain about the existence or non-existence of the creator of reality.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • All the things you said are mundane. The existence of a creator or the origin of reality is something much different to "is my kid an alien?".

    Just because you can't be certain about something doesn't mean you can't be certain about anything. What I'm saying is that being certain about this particular thing feels like a monkey trying to have opinions about quantum computers. I'm sure the money is certain about the banana being tasty.

    Are you certain we are not in a simulation? Isn't the apropiare thing to do in that case to say "I'm not certain, thus I shouldn't have any belief about it, because a belief is not based on facts".

  • My problem with atheism

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  • I think disregarding something isn't the same as believing it isn't possible or true. Disregarding something is just saying "we don't have enough evidence to know", not "I believe this doesn't exist".

    So yeah, when talking about something outside of reason, I think we just shouldn't believe in something.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • Yes, I'd tell them that if their faith wasn't blind, which most of them agree with, so there's nothing to argue there. The difference is that the belief of an atheist is rooted in reason. My point is that human reason is not advanced enough to actually grasp these matter, so having a rational opinion about something we can't rationally understand is pretty strange.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • I think you can't say this is a rule for every scenario. "Believe or not believe" seems to be an opinion of yours that I'm personally not bound to. I'm fine just accepting I don't know something that is clearly outside of the grasp of my rational thought or logic.

    I'm not sure why you guys keep comparing the existence of a god with unicorns or leprschauns. But ok, I'll play along. Do I believe there are unicorns in earth? No, we have a pretty good understanding of the land of this planet. If you said "they live in another dimension" I'd just dismiss that because whoever said it has no clue about what "another dimension" is.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • Yeah, those are the ones I think take an extreme position about stuff we don't really know. Even having any type of belief seems extreme to me, even if it is rooted in reason. Human reason is just too immature to have opinions about the origins of the universe of the existence of a god.

    I think the humble thing is to say "I don't know" without any belief. I don't say religions are wrong, I just dismiss them because they have opinions about things they have no idea about, the same way I dismiss anyone with a belief regarding this matter.

    Someone said "... so Santa Claus and Leprechauns, do you also think they can exist? ... ". It's obviously not the same, the origin of the universe is something very deep and ancient. Having any type of opinion about it seems so arrogant. Let's limit ourselves to what we can measure without opinions or beliefs.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • OK, it still seems like taking sides to me when there's no evidence one way or the other. I'd just say "I don't know" and move on. No need to take sides on something that I'm clueless about, like what's reality or its origins.

    A human believing that God's don't exist based on reason is totally irrelevant, considering how limited human knowledge and reason is in these matters.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • OK then just "atheists" without the agnostic aspect.

  • My problem with atheism

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  • How can you be certain about something related to the origin of the universe when we're just little chimps on a rock. We're clueless about something as complex as creation.