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Cake day: June 20th, 2023

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  • I mean, as i stated, i can’t really vouch or argue against pf2e, since i dont play it and haven’t really read the rules of it since it was in playtest. That said, just googling, i see some things that could be considered exploits like a reddit thread talking about being able to do 520 damage in one attack, some chatter about a “resentment witch” being able to make power word stun or color spray effectively permanent, and a youtube video by the rules lawyer about “OP builds”, so it seems like there’s at least some system exploitation going on.

    Obviously a tighter controlled system is less vulnerable to exploitation (see D&D 4e), but that also doesn’t mean that is necessarily doesn’t exist. Another counter example system with lots of rules and lots of exploitation of them would be shadowrun, especially older versions, which were even worse than D&D in some respects.


  • yeah, unfortunately the CoC rules have always been kind of a mess. it still has a lot of that early RPG “stream of consciousness” aspect to it.

    But yeah, at the end of the day, the number of rules you have is far more relevant to how many “exploits” there are, so CoC/VtM being less “crunchy” will result in less exploits.



  • i mean, if youre wanting exploitative rule mechanics based on wording/interactions, you need to look no further than base first aid and medicine in CoC; You’re able to make 1 of each per wound you take. Unlike older editions, they’ve done away with the heal cap on it, so if you’re down HP, simply deal yourself 1 HP of damage, make a first aid check. and then make a medicine check to heal at minimum 2 HP. Repeat until full. You can easily reheal yourself to full this way, which is definitely “unintended” based on how healing works (and older editions).

    Edit: at the end of the day, my point is that pretending other games cant or dont have exploitative mechanics/builds/whatever is naive at best? It’s not a D&D only problem. It’s just more prevalent in D&D because 1) it has more rules and 2) it has more players.


  • It’s legit not hard to make an OP/powerful character in either VtM or CoC, assuming youre talking about making a character good at combat (which is usually what people talk about in this context with power gaming). I don’t play PF2e, though, so i cant speak there.

    CoC take high dex, put 90+ in handguns, take the pulp talents rapid fire and quick draw, wear a bandolier of guns, and dual wield pistols that you fire 6 shots from per turn. If you dont care about going first, then fast load if you care about reloading, if not, then just take shadow and start combat hidden for two attacks with a bonus die at the start.

    For VtM its easy as take fist of caine and lightning strike. If you aren’t playing as elders, this requires gaining some exp first. I know there’s other combos that i cant think of off hand that are pretty potent too.

    Each of these do have counters in the form of monsters immune to guns (CoC), or celerity 5 opponents (VtM), but thats no different than a DM in D&D always throwing fireballs at the guy with high AC. It begins to be apparent when its happening all the time that the GM/DM/Keeper/whatever is specifically targeting your weakness.