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  • I person I used to know, who turned out to be a real piece of human garbage, told me that they were using the internet to connect with dealers for irl small time consumption purchases.

    Yikes

    I learn a little bit more about it. It's done through Discord.

    Bruh

    I don't even trust Signal or Telegram that much that I'd be comfortable connecting with new people and arranging specifics relating to criminal activity. But Discord!?

    Smh

    And it gets worse. It's a Discord group and the mods facilitated a verification process - you would literally upload a photo of your purchased goods to the moderators.

    Holy fucking shit

    By this stage I'm like "Nope, I don't want to hear anything more about this" because this was either a massive honeypot or as soon as a moderator got flipped by the feds or had their account hacked by them, it was going to turn into one. The less I know about that shit, the better. There's just no way that this server doesn't end badly and it's only a matter of time.

  • I haven't read the article but there was an argument that I put to a small-time content creator who is an unaligned communist that is big on degrowth when they discussed how they hadn't seen anything from MLs on the necessity of degrowth.

    My argument is as follows:

    I live in a settler-colonial state that is "post"-industrial. She definitely does. You probably do too.

    When the revolution comes, I see the absolute necessity of reindustrialisation of these countries because:

    a) Blockades and grey zone warfare prosecuted by reactionary countries making self-reliance a material necessity

    b) Even without the issue of economic warfare, a first world post-revolutionary society doesn't just get to rest on its laurels and be like "Welp, we have socialised the means of production here..." while relying on imports and the imperialist world order to ensure that we still get our cheap treats

    c) There is an immense debt that my country owes the people who it colonised. There is another immense debt that it owes to the entire world by participating in imperialism and reaping its benefits. Your country probably has this debt too.

    Let's just imagine that a so-called "service economy" could actually exist after the revolution. (I'm deeply skeptical about this but whatever.) A service economy is built upon the backbone of the worst forms of exploitation in the developing world.

    What good are reparations if you're still exploiting those who you pay reparations to?

    What does it even look like - do you turn a profit that is something like hundreds or thousands of times more than what you paid for the products and then return a portion back to those farmers, miners, factory workers etc in the developing world? Is that the model that we're fighting for? What about the colonised peoples - do we just smile at them and say "We achieved socialism - you're welcome! 🤗" and that's the end of it?

    I'm not opposed to environmental protection efforts or anything. In fact, I think that if my country's domestic demand was largely met by its own domestic production, this would necessitate a radical reshaping of things like repairability and the repair industry, replaceability, planned longevity displacing planned obsolescence, and consumption as a whole because when the economic field is equalised it's simply not going to be viable for people to buy a get a new smartphone every year or two imo.

    But I just don't buy the idea that degrowth is either the answer nor that it's a viable strategy.

    Tbh I'm deeply suspicious of it because I believe that it's liable to be co-opted by imperialist countries so they can kick away the ladder and maintain their hegemonic position over the rest of the world. It's probably happening right now idk, I haven't been following it closely.

  • So I had a discussion about an old game with someone here on Hexbear. They had a completely different take on one of the main characters than I did and, ultimately, it was a reflection on how I had first played the game prior to radicalising while they clearly first played the game post-radicalisation and it showed.

    I think we're going to have one of these moments right now.

    The message of Slumdog Millionaire is this:

    The people who live in slums are cruel, selfish, vicious, and essentially they deserve their lot in life. But if there is a virtuous slum-dweller then fate will intervene and ultimately they will be rewarded with the station in life that they truly deserve.

  • Poverty tourism used to be a metaphorical term. Now it's literal too. Great.

    When Slumdog Millionaire was released it made it very clear who was radical in their politics and who was a lib. The messaging in the movie is downright disgusting.

    Horatio Alger and his consequences has been a disaster for political discourse.

  • I've already addressed a lot of what you've brought up in a reply further down in this comment thread before you commented so I'm going to try and keep this brief to avoid relitigating the same points that I made prior to you writing this comment.

    Sounds like your complaints are more about the audience that certain youtubers attract more so than the youtubers themselves.

    I'm criticising the structural trend that exists as I see it and I'm doing so because I think that it's exploitative of people on the left which is why I'm bothering to even mention it in the first place.

    Like, I agree that this is a believable interaction, but the question I would have to ask is why are we assigning so much weight to the opinions of randos on the internet?

    Like I said, this is about the hardcore fanbase and as such the implication is pretty clear that it's not intended to be representative of the entire viewership of a channel. I stated directly that this is my own anecdotal experience and it's not like I was trying to pass this off as ethnographic research or anything like that.

    But if we make the assumption that the hardcore fanbase is most likely to donate then this is why their opinions are salient to that part of the discussion and it's also worth noting that I am only responding to this in regard to the prior point that was made further up that nobody thinks that Breadtube is anything beyond infotainment.

    My argument is simply that this is not what is commonly held as true amongst the hardcore fanbase.

    The thing is, you shouldn't be addressing those people directly. If you're replying to/challenging a person like this, you should be writing your response for the benefit of the audience who will be reading that exchange, and you should be responding with the presumption that the bulk of people are not the arrogant and opinionated person you're replying to and that they would appreciate being introduced to an opposing viewpoint.

    I don't disagree but I also don't understand why you're assuming that I don't already know this or why it's relevant.

    Like, this kind of complaint feels akin to what conservatives like to do where they sift through the discourse™️ in order to find the most cringey arguments that they can scrape off of tumblr, often posts from literal children/teenagers, and then sharing memes with "TRIGGERED" as the caption and pretending that those memes represent "The Left." Or it feels like the Ben Shapiro special where he picks "debates" with random college freshmen that he can mock and talk over to show how pathetic "The Left" is, instead of finding someone who can put forward the strongest and most well thought out version of a position and debating them on fair terms.

    This comes off as a pretty broad mischaracterisation of what I've said and how I've said it tbh.

    I didn't even bring up the hardcore fanbase in my original post and I wasn't cherry-picking the absolute worst quotes or screenshots of a fanbase to dish out some epic owns on them publicly to prove that I am the chad and therefore they are the wojaks. Far from it. I was just relaying what I've personally seen from this cohort in a fairly neutral way so not only is it not a complaint but I really don't see how you've arrived at the conclusion that I'm pulling a Ben Shapiro here and it comes off as a bit disingenuous.

    instead of finding someone who can put forward the strongest and most well thought out version of a position and debating them on fair terms.

    I'm not seeking to do that, I've already expressed my distaste for engaging with this demographic, and this is way off the point besides.

    I'm not interested in finding a person who can best defend their positions to have a fair debate with them. I'm simply saying that this is what I've noticed.

    I suppose you could make the argument that in the case of content creators that you get the community that you cultivate, but even in that case the more meaningful criticism would be to break down what a creator is doing that would cultivate an audience like that.

    This is something that is way beyond the scope of what I originally criticised.

    I think it would be helpful to just take a step back and reframe your experience, starting with the understanding that most people are reasonable, reachable, and teachable. And then approach these interactions with the understanding that the people posting inflammatory takes and who immediately become defensive in response to criticism aren't the people you are trying to reach

    I am generally not involved in these discussions directly but it's mostly what I have witnessed so I'm not really sure where the assumption is coming from that I'm directly involving myself in internet slapfights over this with the hardcore fans or that I need to approach this more objectively.

    I'm well aware that commenting online is a spectator sport and you're inferring a huge amount about my intentions based on what is essentially a side note where I disagreed with a point someone made.

    Either adapt your response with the understanding that your intended audience is all of the people who will be reading that exchange and that your intended audience is not the person you are responding to specifically, or step away from online discourse altogether and focus your outreach/persuasion on people in your actual life where you can have face-to-face discussions instead of semi-anonymous flame wars.

    This feels like you're almost trying to diagnose me with some sort of problem and to provide me with advice about how I need to change my ways and what I need to focus on but it's all based on a small aside and you're making some pretty big assumptions about what I engage with, how I engage with it, what I intend to get out of it, and what I devote my time on.

    I'm not seeking advice or support for this. I'm not vexed by it. I'm just recounting what I have witnessed since it's relevant to the discussion. Heck, I even explicitly said that I don't recommend engaging with these people which I think implies that it's something that I don't generally do myself and that I don't see it as a good use of time. If we take that and put it together with what I wrote in my original post, it's implied that I haven't even thought about Three Arrows for years and that it only came up incidentally, and likewise with Contrapoints, which paints a very different picture than the one you seem to have gotten from what I've said.

  • I don't disagree overall with your response but I'm not really sure where you're coming from by saying that I'm approaching Breadtube as a socialist project.

    I was just giving mention to the obvious criticisms of Breadtube that are already out there before moving on to my point, which is that many of the largest creators seem to accumulate a big Patreon base before basically dipping out of creating content save for a couple of videos per year.

    I could be wrong about this next part but I don't think anybody has ever claimed that BreadTube was an educational project to further advance the working class' struggles.

    I know this is gonna come off as a "look it up, bro - it's true!!" response but it's a really common refrain from within the hardcore fanbases of Breadtubers and streamerbros for fans to claim that "they've done more for the left than anyone else." This comes up as one of the first defences of people like Vaush, Keffals, and especially Beau of the Fifth Column. With Beau, if I ever come across someone who supports him, I point out that they're supporting a convicted human trafficker and it's usually a 50/50 chance they'll resort to this defence straight off the bat. They will also often repeat this refrain in their echo-chambers about how tankies are completely insignificant and how their favourite content creator has done more for the left than tankies ever have (yet simultaneously, they'll claim tankies are so disproportionate in their influence that they're ruining socialism for everyone else. Odd how tankies are so weak and yet so strong at the same time 🤔🤔)

    I wouldn't recommend engaging with these people but if you do then it becomes pretty obvious that it's not just a parasocial relationship they have with their favourite YouTubers but it's also kinda like a parapolitical or para-activist relationship they have with them as well.

    If people wanted to do this, they would've already done so.

    I wouldn't deny it.

    I don't think them donating to BreadTube would stop them from doing so.

    I'm of a different opinion here. I think with the diehard believers they really do have a sort of false consciousness and they believe that they're funding something that's greater than infotainment and because of that they're less likely to put their donations towards something which is politically impactful.

    Not to mention the donations are so geographically distributed that if these donations did go to local grassroots orgs instead it'd probably be negligible amounts

    Maybe. But a ton of orgs run on a shoestring and even if it was only in the most populous cities in the west like New York and LA and London, if the money from places like that were going to grassroots orgs instead of Patreon I think it would make a significant difference.

    But then again there's absolutely no way of proving this claim since no-one but Patreon would have the demographic data of patrons and the amount they donate so this is pure speculation.

  • I tried to read this article but I teared up too much and I couldn't see to be able to keep on reading.

    If Yoko Ono were still alive she'd write an song with an odious, racially-charged comparison between Hillary and black people and everyone around the world would come together every year on November 9th to listen to this song and to mourn our collective loss.