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Jack

@ Jack @lemmy.ca

Posts
1
Comments
86
Joined
3 yr. ago

  • Locked

    bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe

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  • I don’t think “kill fewer people” is splitting hairs.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/08/16/biden-oil-drilling-production/ :

    As he campaigned for president in 2020, Joe Biden made a bold promise at a New Hampshire town hall, adding repetition for emphasis: “No more drilling on federal lands. Period. Period. Period. Period.” […] The Biden administration has now outpaced the Trump administration in approving permits for drilling on public lands, and the United States is producing more oil than any country ever has. […] The country is expected to produce 13.2 million barrels of oil per day on average this year — millions of barrels more than Saudi Arabia or Russia.

    "producing more oil than any country ever has" is making the biosphere unlivable, and causing a mass extinction which will kill more people.

    If enough people vote for green parties, we can reverse anthropogenic climate change and stop the anthropocene extinction. If however we keep voting for the omnicidal lesser evil, then we're voting for omnicidal evil, and complicit in killing more people.

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

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  • Some things are sustainable, others are not - by orders of magnitude.

    Growing a tree, and then cutting it down to boil water is sustainable.

    Producing more oil than any country ever has, is absolutely not sustainable.

    Accessing the internet using an open source OS on hardware other people threw away, is sustainable, even when following the categorical imperative where the other 8 billion people also do it.

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

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  • I don't think fear of persecution and resistance to authoritarianism is selfish. I think some things are vastly worse than others, e.g. wiping out more than 50% of genera and more than 70% of species, and making the biosphere unlivable for most creatures larger than mice - is incredibly selfish; and being complicit in genocide is a line some people won't cross no matter if it may benefit them personally in the short term. I understand most people have very different priorities, and care more about their own short-term goals even if those goals make them complicit in omnicide.

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

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  • Some things are sustainable, others are not - by orders of magnitude. Some of the former are not sustainable when done by billions of people.

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

    Jump

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

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  • So it's okay to help yourself in the short term, and by doing so help make the biosphere unlivable?

  • Voters who sat out 2020 weigh whether to jump in for Trump or Harris this time

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  • "Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses, and American universities - and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, [...] you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The public sucks. Fuck hope.'" -- George Carlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBrbXOmnW70

    I don't completely agree: slavery is now illegal; so there's hope they'll one day vote to oppose omnicidal biosphere destruction, and genocides.

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

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  • There's a difference between saying you want to stop something, vs saying that thing is not going to happen "Period. Period. Period. Period." when you end up doing the thing anyway.

    If you care about honesty, and in this case if you care about a biosphere in which people are able to live, then it matters.

    It's possible to do things, and to be honest.

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

    Jump

  • So maybe the right-wing Biden shouldn't have promised with "Period. Period. Period. Period." something the even more right-wing Republicans' judges could strike down.

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

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  • I'm not offended - I understand most people have very different priorities. I personally think that preventing a mass extinction event is more important than police, doctors, schools, roads (for cars), and fascism; because I happen to think that a catastrophic climate cascade means nothing else matters. Healthcare is nice, but doctors will all be dead when the biosphere becomes unlivable.

    I don't stand with the genocidal Hamas voters, nor with the genocidal Israeli voters.

  • Because I'm still seeing "Both parties are the same!" trolls in the comments

    Jump

  • As he campaigned for president in 2020, Joe Biden made a bold promise at a New Hampshire town hall, adding repetition for emphasis: “No more drilling on federal lands. Period. Period. Period. Period.” […] The Biden administration has now outpaced the Trump administration in approving permits for drilling on public lands, and the United States is producing more oil than any country ever has. […] The reality is the United States is already dominant. The country is expected to produce 13.2 million barrels of oil per day on average this year — millions of barrels more than Saudi Arabia or Russia. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/08/16/biden-oil-drilling-production/

    They're not the same, but if you look at the big picture, like a livable vs an unlivable biosphere, then the slightly-lesser evil is still omnicidally evil (and helping with a genocide).

  • A Trump Win Would Threaten Historic Climate Progress in North Carolina

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  • As he campaigned for president in 2020, Joe Biden made a bold promise at a New Hampshire town hall, adding repetition for emphasis: “No more drilling on federal lands. Period. Period. Period. Period.” […] The Biden administration has now outpaced the Trump administration in approving permits for drilling on public lands, and the United States is producing more oil than any country ever has. […] The reality is the United States is already dominant. The country is expected to produce 13.2 million barrels of oil per day on average this year — millions of barrels more than Saudi Arabia or Russia. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/08/16/biden-oil-drilling-production/

    The slightly-lesser evil is still omnicidally evil.

  • Nevar Forget

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  • Nevar Forget

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  • To convince Greens or Carlins (people who don't vote because the Democrats are still too evil from their point-of-view) to vote for Democrats, you need to understand yourself and them. Once you do that, you'll be able to offer more convincing arguments to support your position.

    If you're voting for Democrats, you possibly agree with the following scale of evilness:

    • 10 Hitler
    • 9 Stalin
    • 8.5 Trump
    • 8 Republicans and people who vote for them
    • 7
    • 6
    • ~5-3 elected Democratic party members
    • 2
    • 1 you
    • 0 Jesus

    The thing is that some Greens see the world very differently:

    • 10 people making the biosphere unlivable thru overpopulation
    • 9 factory farmers and commercial fishing companies
    • 8
    • 7 Hitler, Stalin
    • 6
    • 5 George W. Bush, Putin
    • 4 Trump, Republicans, and people who vote for them
    • 3 Gore, Obama, Democrats, and people who vote for them
    • 2
    • 1 Sanders
    • 0
    • -1
    • -2
    • -3
    • -4 Green party
    • -5
    • -6
    • -7 them
    • -8
    • -9
    • -10

    The Greens' (and Carlins') priorities are very different. They may think that choosing to make the biosphere unlivable is the worst thing you can do, because without a biosphere that supports life, nothing else matters.

    As he campaigned for president in 2020, Joe Biden made a bold promise at a New Hampshire town hall, adding repetition for emphasis: “No more drilling on federal lands. Period. Period. Period. Period.” […] The Biden administration has now outpaced the Trump administration in approving permits for drilling on public lands, and the United States is producing more oil than any country ever has. […] The reality is the United States is already dominant. The country is expected to produce 13.2 million barrels of oil per day on average this year — millions of barrels more than Saudi Arabia or Russia. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/08/16/biden-oil-drilling-production/

    They may think that torturing trillions of fish to death every year, and enslaving hundreds of billions of animals in torturous conditions every year, is worse than all genocides and wars in all of history combined. They think that voting for someone who enables even a single genocide is a line they won't cross.

    They may think that given the choice between popular Hitler, popular Stalin, and unpopular Gandhi; they'd rather vote for Gandhi than the popular lesser evil, because that specific evil is omnicidally evil. That it's better to vote for good and fail, than it is to vote for evil and succeed.

  • The 2024 Presidential Election Will Make or Break U.S. Climate Action

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  • As he campaigned for president in 2020, Joe Biden made a bold promise at a New Hampshire town hall, adding repetition for emphasis: “No more drilling on federal lands. Period. Period. Period. Period.” [...] The Biden administration has now outpaced the Trump administration in approving permits for drilling on public lands, and the United States is producing more oil than any country ever has. [...] The reality is the United States is already dominant. The country is expected to produce 13.2 million barrels of oil per day on average this year — millions of barrels more than Saudi Arabia or Russia.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/08/16/biden-oil-drilling-production/

  • We'll have a long memory as things get worse for working class Americans, minorities and women

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  • The Biden administration has now outpaced the Trump administration in approving permits for drilling on public lands, and the United States is producing more oil than any country ever has. [...] “If you were to show someone who came from Mars the line of U.S. oil and gas production over the last 15 years, they probably would not be able to tell whether a Republican or Democrat was in the White House,” said Jason Bordoff, founding director of the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University. [...] The reality is the United States is already dominant. The country is expected to produce 13.2 million barrels of oil per day on average this year — millions of barrels more than Saudi Arabia or Russia.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/08/16/biden-oil-drilling-production/

  • We'll have a long memory as things get worse for working class Americans, minorities and women

    Jump

  • To convince Greens or Carlins (people who don't vote because the Democrats are still too evil from their point-of-view) to vote for Democrats, you need to understand yourself and them. Once you do that, you'll be able to offer more convincing arguments to support your position.

    If you're voting for Democrats, you possibly agree with the following scale of evilness:

    • 10 Hitler
    • 9 Stalin
    • 8.5 Trump
    • 8 Republicans and people who vote for them
    • 7
    • 6
    • ~5-3 elected Democratic party members
    • 2
    • 1 you
    • 0 Jesus

    The thing is that Greens and Carlins see the world very differently:

    • 10 people making the biosphere unlivable thru overpopulation
    • 9 factory farmers and commercial fishing companies
    • 8
    • 7 Hitler, Stalin
    • 6
    • 5 George W. Bush, Putin
    • 4 Trump, Republicans, and people who vote for them
    • 3 Gore, Obama, Democrats, and people who vote for them
    • 2
    • 1 Sanders
    • 0
    • -1
    • -2
    • -3
    • -4
    • -5
    • -6
    • -7 them
    • -8
    • -9
    • -10

    The Greens' and Carlins' priorities are very different. They may think that choosing to make the biosphere unlivable is the worst thing you can do, because without a biosphere that supports life, nothing else matters.

    They may think that torturing trillions of fish to death every year, and enslaving hundreds of billions of animals in torturous conditions every year, is worse than all genocides and wars in all of history combined. They think that supporting even a single genocide is bad.

    They may think that given the choice between popular Hitler, popular Stalin, and unpopular Gandhi; they'd rather vote for Gandhi than the popular lesser evil, because that specific evil is omnicidally evil. It's better to vote for good and fail, than it is to vote for evil and succeed.

  • We'll have a long memory as things get worse for working class Americans, minorities and women

    Jump

  • Study shows EV owners have bigger carbon footprint than average because they are wealthier

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  • produce their meats

    Billions of individuals choose to eat animal products giving money to factory farmers and industrial fishing companies - 2 industries that cause more pain and suffering than all other atrocities ever committed in all of history, combined (1-3 trillion fish are tortured to death every year by fishing companies, and at least hundreds of billions of animals are enslaved in torturous conditions in factory-farms every year). I live in a 3rd world country, and went vegan almost 20 years ago. For the people causing most harm: those in rich countries, it's easier to be vegan.

    For those who can't grow their own plant-food, there's still this: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/land-use-kcal-poore

    Reducing emissions is a systems problem, it’s not about telling people to “be more green”

    It's both: "No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood."