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There’s a lot of baggage with the term “woke” as it’s levelled here. In North America presently it is the brush that is used to tar anyone who is not white, “conventionally attractive”, skinny, cis, heterosexual or a narrow range of subtypes pandering to those audiences as a means to blanket criticize and apply pressure to remove them unilaterally from public. It’s such a politicized term used for years by an outright supremacist movement and levied as a dogwhistle in outright genocidal political spheres that it has no nuance. If you want to convey nuance it doesn’t work as a term.

Your views do not appear to strictly align with the movements who use “Woke Propaganda Cringe” as a tool of linguistically signaling this cluster of held beliefs in a space. It’s a bit like if you walked into a space where gangs are active and started throwing up specific gang signs. Where you come from those signs might have nuance and usage that is lighthearted and non serious or specific but in spaces where those gangs are active and enacting violence those signs are strict affiliation markers with implied buy in to violence and little allowance for misinterpretation.

If your intention is to not be deliberately incendiary towards the targets of the American far right when dealing with the people in North America it’s probably best to drop the usage of “woke”.

Hilarious! You want the last word to salvage what little pride you can. 😂

Pfft! Really hit the bottom of the tank huh? This shit is so 2017 paint by numbers it’s not even good trolling. Philistine made me laugh though so points there.

Oh I am not dragged down. I am an old troll counterpuncher from the old pre reddit flight days. If they try and take me down they will find I do not make it rewarding.

Ah yes, “just stating your opinions” “echo chambers” and the calls that you are being oppressed and policed, that I am both a narcissist and a weak little trans weenie who needs to shut themselves away where I can’t hear your big strong ideas.

It’s the full right wing bingo card. Do you lot ever get tired of clutching those pearls?

Don’t answer I know you will die with those things in a death grip.

And in your second paragraph, see how you had to add ugly to my statement to make it malicious and false, that is you projecting onto me, not me

Ah so “barely even cosmetically complete” doesn’t register as you calling them aesthetically displeasing? Fuck off.

The framing as it being a personal choice not to pursue those options are the thinnest veneer of setting yourself up for this reaction to be shocked and appalled that someone would call you out. Even if you were trans yourself framing it the way you did before would register as you being an ass to other people in your community.

Troll behavior.

Well yeah. It’s openly critical of the sexual function of people who have had those proceedures. The trans community as a whole are often depicted as mutilated and less functional by transphobes or people who want to devalue them as valid romantic options. Since access to those medical services are actively under fire that critique isn’t value neutral and it isn’t in the context of what unaltered sexual function is like for people with dysphoria whom often register a marked improvement in overall function from getting over the mental blocks.

The people I know who have had surgeries have been quite happy with the outcome. While it’s true the surgery options regarding bottom surgery for trans men require one to make some decisions about what functions to focus on, framing them as ugly and “barely functional” is insulting. Think about what it would be like to hear someone else critique the choices you’ve made that have improved your life experiences in a way that frames you as deficient and devalued.

Edit : During this comment chain this guy has self identified as a cis man - so to summerize, this is a random guy saying a set of surgeries and care plan created to address body issues he does not experience is not something he would choose because they are subpar. Yup. Real valid opinion right there. Totally not a smokescreen for anything nasty. /s

Please don’t fall for this dreck.

It’s not Canada or Denmark which will suffer the most from-it, but US themselves

I get what you are saying but at the same time as a Canadian that comes across as more American-centric myopia.

We are a small country in terms of people with only nominally more people than the state of California spread out over a landmass 1.6% larger than the US. Our energy infrastructure doesn’t fully connect through our own country and due to American strong arming a lot of our manufacturing industry is not super robust. It’s the Goose next to the Eagle. We’re tough enough to defend ourselves and make it hurt to attack us but we aren’t getting anything out of this fight. For us it’s a fight for our lives not a fight we can profit off of. Whatever wounds we take in this fight will soften us up for the regular problems we fight. The forest fires that have become exponentially worse through climate change that have erased entire cities off our map. The healthcare crisis of a mass of retiring boomers needing more care in a system that has constantly under fire from Americanizing rhetoric that has caused disinvestment from an ethically better system. The protectionist rhetoric that comes with conflict which will erode the systems of government and create legal precedent for more autocratic means of operation that will need to be later undone. The pausing of reconciliation efforts with indigenous nations. This conflict, even as it is now, will cause real trackable losses of life and livelihood some of which will not come back.

Our existence and future as a sovereign nation is threatened but nope “The US will be the real victims of this”? Bloody fucking tonedeaf mate.

Yes, let’s make Washington state a Canadian providence.

Totally cool making WA a Province but leave providence out of it. Canadian politics are aggressively secular and we would prefer any divinities keep their noses out of our maple-y business.

Uhhh… They have kind of absurd political power. The Vatican is essentially the decision making body of something a close to an international political business with a history of teaming up with governments to support initiatives.

Like look at the genocidal regime of residential schools in Canada. While they were a government initiative 2/3 of them were run directly by the Catholic church.

Political power doesn’t always mean strictly “interfaces directly with official government” either. Politics is the web of citizen buy in to how the world should be run. The Catholic Church is incredibly influential on citizens many of whom take the directives of the church and translate it into agency in a multitude of ways. It’s not a perfect control but it’s certainly used to shape the political landscape the world over.

I am less shocked and more resigned. Been tracking the progress of the Republican party over a decade now and watching them throw out euphemism after euphemism as they just aren’t needed anymore. What the reaction of shock got us back then was “alarmist” since the Conservative playbook was so layered up in dogwhistles the average person thought it was tinfoil hat fodder.

The base was being groomed to accept this as an outcome and so they were slow boiled. It was that way for the Nazis too. Each terrible move wasn’t quick it was the next horrible logical conclusion of their worldview of removing the “useless” aspects of humanity. They started first in government services and then with eugenics in mental health care while dismantling queer infrastructure in cities under the same eugenics line citing them as non-reproductive genetic dead ends. Then it turned to homelessness. Then as their policies created more “useless” classes of people in the form of minorities who could not legally work because of the laws they passed they turned to liquidation of those groups. Each step was followed by a pause to make the rhetoric more callus to build off the basic premise that as an able-bodied, regularly employed, sane, cishet, white, Christian / atheist that your resources were personally being stolen from you to feed the “undeserving”.

How far back can you remember Republicans on their soap box about people being undeserving of assistance or support? About people being a waste of resources or campaigning to make those people easier to stigmatize? It shouldn’t be surprising after over a decade that they’ve been dropping the mask.

They did a study and money can buy happiness but it caps out after the point it allows you chances to travel and take stress free time off. Being poor literally shortens people’s lives through misery.

So what we have is a man whom money will make as happy as he will ever get and remains miserable plunging people into a deficit of security through his actions. He’s infectiously miserable and someone needs to quarantine him.

Are you talking about the NATO shortfall? Because the Canadian government has a number of places where it is scrambling to find budget for a lot of things. Consider

• An expanded commitment to rehoming and financially supporting refugees from Ukraine. Processing and approving 962,612 submissions starting from 2022

• Reconciliation efforts with notoriously under served indigenous nations to improve dismal conditions of services support, locate and providing funding to document the Residential school genocide and providing better support to survivors.

• Reinvestment in one of the most challenging Public health care landscapes in the world due to the sheer landmass the government is constitutionally on the hook to cover.

• A history making sized population of people now reaching retirement age and requiring more drastic critical health interventions and social supports than ever before.

Static commitments like NATO spending are a bit like rent. If you are financially struggling through other financially challenging problems the landlord cannot often be convinced to give you a temporary forgiveness for extenuating circumstances. All of the above things are challenges that are either in service to international peace against the encroachment of Russia, the thing NATO was created to do, or they represent inflexible commitments the government has to serve the needs of it’s people as written into it’s own laws… But a NATO landlord has a contract with a number and the number doesn’t change no matter what.

I know it’s not the case because the studies basically are for a wider population set than just transgender people… But even if it weren’t, even if it was to create a population of trans mice to use for experiments benefiting trans people; we need it.

People rag on about the possibilities of regret for the transitioned but it is so statistically rare that it really isn’t a huge problem… but one of the actual risks of existing as a trans or intersex person is medicine in general doesn’t test or teach for your population. Trans people are very often given entirely wrong doses of meds because of assumptions about how they should react to them. Rule of thumb is that the adage that for anyone on horomones “trans women are women, trans men are men” is basically the way to go. This is because if you treat an Assigned male at birth person on feminizing estrogen like you would a phenotyical cis man for purposes of dose chances are that you will give them too much. The drugs will linger in the paitents system just like drugs do for cis women and we already know that is a great way to cause unwanted damages to the paitents’ organ function and for desired care outcomes to tank. There are also some meds and health conditions which do have unique presentations in populations with mixed sex characteristics and a more in depth understanding of the nature of sex and the body is how you get cool new things.

There is a largely empty hole in medicine where trans and intersex people are concerned and having an army of “transgender” mice to test against actually would be something of benefit. I know this is a generally unacceptable thing to point out to transphobes however because in a lot of ways they just want being trans to be riskier to force people away from considering being openly trans as a viable option.

These jabs are only vaguely in your direction. I have been aiming past you to people who are not shut down. You have decided to stay sidelined which I have said at multiple points, is fine. You do you. But what you keep doing is to try, quite transparently, to discredit the seriousness with which I am taking the situation by signaling to the people around me that inaction is noble. That what I am doing is shameful… That is my only problem with how you comport yourself because otherwise even those who are useless are fairly neutral.

But you aren’t useless, you are taking this personally. You are throwing up your hands and crowing victim which is another silencing tactic well worn in circles that aim to keep the conversation going so the solve never comes. That isn’t useless behavior , it is undermining tactics. This isn’t about you. Get over yourself.

At this point this convo is so buried that the point has essentially passed so I will not continue. Goodbye.

Get used to there being a front line because as this gets worse these mediums of communication are going to get more action driven. You think it’s overkill now but the more you get used to hearing other people calling for ACTUAL action the more you will see what it actually looks like and will know what you could be participating in. This is likely lost on you because at this point you are simply reacting to being checked.

Yesterday the US failed diplomatically at a fundemental level with allies who are key to policing the international waters and air between the USA and Russia. Don’t be fooled. It is not just a trade war, it is a softening of US defenses as well. Priorities will be changing and depending they could change faster than you expect. If this follows the patterns of other historical conflicts we will all only learn how critical our time was at this stage in hindsight.

No APATHY is calling a call for further action moreso than the feather touch of resistance “being an edgelord” it’s an attempt to shame someone into less vocal rhetoric so that people take what is happening less seriously. It’s an attempt to shame people out of mobilizing.

You want to stay out of the frontline? Fine. Move to the rear and stay out of the way of the people who are showing up People who are taking classes in collective action or medic training, showing up to protests and getting arrested or helping their neighbours with minor acts of institutional sabotage. You don’t get to shame on people taking this more seriously than you are.

We are so far beyond caring about toothless boycotts.

Well quite frankly nobody asked for this but we have it and we’re not the first fucking generation to have to put aome skin on the line to make the place we live habitable after everything goes to shit. If you think all you can do is wait to cash your ballot or wave a sign then I am speaking to you. It’s time to organize better and move because it is only going to get worse from here.

You are free to ignore this. You are free to go quietly. However keep your destructive apathy to yourself. More of us have to look apathy and personal disenfranchisement from the system in the eye and see it as the weight that stops any of this from ever getting better.