I can imagine which kind of gun enthusiasts will form militias then, and what kind of values they will enforce… Certainly not equality and the rule of law. Many would probably hunt or terrorize immigrants and LGBT+ folks for leisure, for example.

Sure, police culture and accountability are broken in many places (especially in the US), but just getting rid of them while leaving a power vacuum for any nut jobs with power fantasies to fill, with literally 0 accountability, would be even more of an absolute nightmare for minorities.

And when it’s the only way to keep their family from starving, for example, people will consent in droves, securing supply.

I feel like if a child with a similar level of cognition as the cow harms other children, most people will say they have no moral agency yet, and will still see harvesting their leather as immoral.

There are two ways to resolve that inconsistency…

And the good thing is, when demand for (human) leather is higher than supply, people will just breed some more humans, keep them on farms, use their labor and sell their leather. With nothing going to waste, just the beautiful circle of life.

We’ve gotten quite efficient at doing that so there’s plenty opportunity to have more jobs, make a profit and to provide a product at an affordable price point, at the same time, all with human leather farms. Just have to compromise on welfare and sustainability step by step for more profit, but humans are already really great at ignoring such things when it’s advantageous to them, so most won’t ask any pesky questions anyways. We just have to normalize human leather (from factory farms) and everything will be great.

If murder of a minority group was legalized and someone decided to murder their innocent neighbors and steal their stuff to make a buck, would all of the responsibility really fall on the legislator and none on the murderer?

Imo an immoral act stays immoral whether or not it’s encouraged or discouraged by the government or social environment. I find it somewhat more understandable how people can carry out something cruel if it’s legal and completely normalized, but “It’s not their fault” is much more apologetic than I’m comfortable with. Especially when they make millions off the suffering and deaths of other people (due to inadequate medical care).

Crypto bros depend on more people speculating with their currency of choice to increase the market value. If they’re pissed, that’s a good sign.

Thompson’s life may have been cut brutally short, but it will remain a model for how a talented and determined man from humble roots can still rise to the top of corporate life without the benefit of rich parents and an Ivy League degree.

Lol, was this meant for the onion?

“He managed to get filthy rich off the suffering of working class people. What a working class hero. Truly a huge inspiration for all of us.”

I’m not happy when people die. But looking at the scale of institionalized cruelty in the American healthcare system, I can certainly understand the feeling of retribution that many Americans have when people who are responsible for the suffering and deaths of others, while getting rich from that, get the same fate. Especially when they or people they know have been denied coverage. Of course some people don’t just want to bend over, and a political solution is out of the question for the foreseeable future.

Ich stimme dir zu dass Schritte in die richtige Richtung als positiv angesehen und ermutigt werden sollten, anstatt da negativ drauf zu reagieren. Egal ob es z.B. um das Thema Massentierhaltung oder Klimaschutz oder sonst ein Problem geht. Die meisten Menschen können Überzeugungen und Gewohnheiten nur schrittweise hinterfragen und ändern, so ist die menschliche Psychologie einfach.

Wenn jetzt aber ein Teil der Bevölkerung Hunde und Katzen so behandeln würde wie die Tiere in der Massentierhaltung behandelt werden, und ein anderer Teil der Bevölkerung das weiterhin als absolute Tierquälerei ablehnen würde, dann würden die letzteren sich auch sehr schwer damit tun ein “nur noch einem Hund in der Woche die Kehle durchscheiden zu lassen statt zwei” als (Zwischen-)Lösung zu befürworten. Aus ihrer Sicht würden sie damit Tierquälerei als vertretbar darstellen und legitimieren, was im direkten Konflikt mit ihren grundlegenden Überzeugungen steht.

Aus rationaler Sicht braucht gesellschaftlicher Wandel viel Zeit und Mühe, und Fortschritt bringt auch immer Wiederstand und Rückschläge mit sich, wie wir es gerade leider auch beim Klima sehen. Wenn etwas aber so emotional aufgeladen ist und einem so wichtig ist, dann sind viele Menschen emotional nicht dazu bereit diese bittere Pille zu akzeptieren. Das ist denke ich der Hauptgrund für diese “Ganz oder gar nicht” Haltung.

Die Frage ist ob es für einen Priorität hat dass es Tieren gut geht, oder ob man Tieren für den eigenen Genuss Schaden zufügen würde bzw. schaden zufügen lässt.

Wer ein paar Minuten des guten Geschmacks über das Leben eines Tieres stellt und Gewalttaten an Tieren befürwortet und mitfinanziert, ist von seinen Handlungen her ganz weit von einem Tierfreund entfernt. Egal ob es einem auch Spaß macht einen Hund zu streicheln oder nicht.

Wenn Tieren die Kehle durchzuschneiden und Tierfreund zu sein kein Widerspruch ist, dann können Kannibalen auch Menschenfreunde sein. Vorausgesetzt ihre Opfer hatten ein gutes Leben, wurden vor der Schlachtung betäubt, und so weiter. Ist schließlich auch gut fürs Gewissen.

Appeasement is a terrible idea when we’re talking about Nazis, it has never worked and will never work. I don’t get why people are so ignorant about history. I guess you’re not part of a minority that would get brutalized or murdered under their rule? Otherwise you probably wouldn’t attempt to play nice with literal Nazis.

It’s really irritating to watch this shit unfold as a German. You guys are basically begging fascists to take over at this point.

Cruel cultural traditions make (good) people support horrible acts. A tale as old as time.

Fortunately plant-based alternatives have been growing and improving quite fast for 10-20 years now, so I’m hopeful that even those who “could never give up meat” might stop supporting those hell holes. I was one of them, after all.

Kabecz have been charged with several offences, including killing or injuring animals; causing unnecessary suffering to an animal; failing to provide adequate medical attention for an animal when it is wounded or ill; inflicting upon an animal acute suffering, serious injury or harm, or extreme anxiety or distress that significantly impairs its health or well-being.

Just inflict the same things on “farm animals” and it’s not only socially acceptable, but the average person will gladly buy the products, and therefore fund the abuse on factory farms.

We certainly have a looong way to go to become a decent society based on that metric.

Seems like they haven’t gained traction since the reddit exodus. I wonder how the other alternatives are doing. Lemmy has a decent amount of activity at least, although I still wish more people would use it.

“Haha, Nein.” - FDP

Soy cake can be used to produce textured vegetable protein (meat alternatives), tofu, tempeh, soy milk, protein powder, biofuels and bioplastics, for example.

Calling that industrial waste is just a complete joke.

The land could also be used to grow other crops for human consumption.

You’re not the animals.

I literally wrote that this isn’t about me/humans, so yes, obviously.

There are many groups that are suffering and that I’m not part of, and I still care about what’s happening to them and want the suffering to end. It seems like most lemmy users share that sentiment when it comes to oppressed humans, so I really don’t get what’s so hard to understand about that when I extend it to animals.

You might have the opinion that factory farming isn’t a social justice issue, fine. Me having a different opinion doesn’t negatively affect you in any way. Why are you so pissed at me just because I see it differently?

Don’t you also draw a line when you choose to eat plants?

I think there’s a reasonable distinction here. You would presumably also draw a line between a conscious human and a brain dead human that won’t ever be conscious again. As far as we can reasonably tell, consciousness requires a brain. Dogs and pigs have brains, so maybe we shouldn’t torture and kill them on factory farms. We can also see them suffering and measure their physical reaction to it.

Of course there’s a possibility that plants have some kind of consciousness too, but 1. that’s speculation and 2. there’s no way around farming them, as you have said yourself:

Untill humans develop the ability to photosynthesize, we are going to have to eat other species, there’s no way around it.

Farming animals will always require far more plant deaths than growing plants for human consumption. These animals have to grow for months before being slaughtered and literally eat tons of animal feed in that time.

Therefore, plant-based food minimizes both animal suffering and deaths as well as plant deaths.

I’m not convinced that plant deaths are an ethical issue in of themselves, but farming has environmental implications so it makes sense to minimize the food that needs to be grown and make the farming as environmentally friendly as reasonably possible.

I’m sorry to hear that. The thing is, you mainly hear from those who are the most vocal, and those tend to be the most angry and therefore unreasonable. And those probably had their fair share of verbal (and/or physical) abuse from meat eaters, as vegans are hated on by a much, much larger part of society than the other way around. (That doesn’t justify their hate, of course)

It’s all a self reinforcing dynamic of groups riling each other up, unfortunately.

Just goes to show how little you care about others suffering. Social justice for me but not for others (those who I consider interior).