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CommunistCuddlefish [she/her]

@ CommunistCuddlefish @hexbear.net

Posts
50
Comments
1147
Joined
3 yr. ago

  • Going to copy paste my question every time yakubposting comes up until I get an answer:

    I'm so sorry to ask this, but I've been trying to find an answer and have not. Can I get a run-down on what makes Yakub-posting so bad? The NOI itself is obviously problematic, the concepts the Yakub myth is based on are phrenological and race/bioessentialist absurdity, I see that. But that point about "NOI didn't fully believe the story but used it as a way to discuss race relations" is pretty clear; people who had that exact kind of 19th century "scientific" racism violently imposed upon them grappling with the concepts underlying it and talking about their suffering. Like, while I would not do it and am no fan of the NOI, I refuse to condemn any black person who uses that language to express their pain about what white people have done to them.

    I don't use it because I'm not black, and I have some discomfort with the false history and race science aspects in it. The possible explanations I could come up with from my searching about why it's problematic are:

    1. I was walking with a then-friend (white) many years ago and we saw a Black Israelite preaching in the street about how white people were created by the devil or something. I didn't grasp exactly what he said but it sounded similar. She bristled at the "reverse racism". I was more nonchalant about it but still uncomfortable. I would be utterly shocked if "yakubposting is racist against white people" is the problem with yakubposting.

    1. it looks like 4channers picked up Yakub and were Yakubposting to be racist against black people, mocking a story that only existed because of how brutally black people are oppressed in the first place. But are people here yakubposting to mock black people? Or are they doing it to mock oppressors?

    So, I'm confused, and would like to learn what it is I'm missing here.

  • :waow-based:

  • I see. Well, sometimes people just don't fit right together. Sad that it took so long to figure out, but better 4 years then 16

  • That sucks. Was it her idea to open the relationship?

  • Good joke :)

    It appears we have no laugh emotes that are just genuinely good-hearted laughing. They've all got thorns in them

  • The Parliamentarian says Trump can't go to prison for this, sorry lads, pack it up. Maybe we'll get him next time.

  • Part 1: Right that's the other thing. The religion as I understand it is not about having the correct label, it's about doing the right things and being a good person. I think Christianity had some major schisms about that, "faith vs works".

    Part 2: In the context, which I didn't want to link because I didn't want to risk brigading some hexbearian, it was definitely a joke.

  • I'm so sorry to ask this, but I've been trying to find an answer and have not. Can I get a run-down on what makes Yakub-posting so bad? The NOI itself is obviously problematic, the concepts the Yakub myth is based on are phrenological and race/bioessentialist absurdity, I see that. But that point about "NOI didn't fully believe the story but used it as a way to discuss race relations" is pretty clear; people who had that exact kind of 19th century "scientific" racism violently imposed upon them grappling with the concepts underlying it and talking about their suffering. Like, while I would not do it and am no fan of the NOI, I refuse to condemn any black person who uses that language to express their pain about what white people have done to them.

    I don't use it because I'm not black, and I have some discomfort with the false history and. The possible explanations I could come up with from my searching about why it's problematic are:

    1. I was walking with a then-friend (white) many years ago and we saw a Black Israelite preaching in the street about how white people were created by the devil or something. I didn't grasp exactly what he said but it sounded similar. She bristled at the "reverse racism". I was more nonchalant about it but still uncomfortable. I would be utterly shocked if "yakubposting is racist against white people" is the problem with yakubposting.
    2. it looks like 4channers picked up Yakub and were Yakubposting to be racist against black people, mocking a story that only existed because of how brutally black people are oppressed in the first place. But are people here yakubposting to mock black people? Or are they doing it to mock oppressors?

    So, I'm confused, and would like to learn what it is I'm missing here.

  • Not going to pretend I understand the specifics but I get the gist. :chef-kiss: beautiful.

  • Well given that it's generally directed against reactionaries and xenophobes, my take is I love it, it feels solidaristic.  Even more so when it's about people who've been murdering and oppressing colonized peoples.  I say it too.

    I can totally see someone finding it offensive.  Islam is not a monolith and there are so many different interpretations I know nothing about, and on top of that I didn't have an orthodox upbringing in the faith, (there are multiple different orthodoxies anyway).  So I can't give you an answer about how to deal with it if a practicing Muslim gets offended or expresses discomfort with that, you just need to take these things on a case by case contextual basis.  I'd probably disagree and talk about it, maybe have a gentle argument, and I'd feel insecure and have imposter syndrome the whole time because I've probably set foot in a mosque under 5 times in my life

    I don't know who said it was offensive or what their perspective was.  idk if it was some theological point they were making, a matter of cultural appropriation, or something else.  I could easily see some more respectability-politics-minded Muslims I know being offended or upset because it clashes with their more peacable interpretations or stances.  Traumatized by the mischaracterizations about how "Islam is a religion of peace" was a rallying cry by Islamophobes to juxtapose against "radical islamic terrorism", and seeking acceptance and safety by playing up how not-scary the religion is.  I've had some tussles about that in my family actually.  To them I've said "There can be no peace while the warmongers still shed the blood of the innocent.  There can be no peace without justice, and it is not just for mass murderers to enjoy their freedom and lavish lifestyles while their victims cannot."  Their objections are that who am I to say what is just and not, I'm not Allah, and I say I don't need to be, any 4-year-old can tell right from wrong!  With no resolution; they can't emotionally stomach my position, because my position is one that acknowledges there is no safety in compliance and obsequity, while I can't emotionally stomach their position because I burn with hatred for these butchers, hatred fueled by sorrow and horror about what they've done to people in the name of Empire.

    And on Justice, anyway:  I was talking with a Jewish friend and he said his read on the Torah is that many prophets protested against YHWH for not adhering to Justice, and were tested in turn about whether they would comply with his unjust orders or refuse.  To him, the story of Abraham is one of failing such a test, because Abraham was going to kill his son just because he was ordered to, and what followed in his life after was his punishment for following orders instead of refusing and standing by what he knew must be right.   That's not a very orthodox interpretation, but I love it.  Because at the end of the day, what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, and not even the creator of the universe can make it otherwise.

  • Never heard of Dara O'Brian but that seems like a great approach to humor. A good comedian knows when and when not to throw that joke out. A good expert knows the limits of their expertise.

  • God's plan for Amerikkkan war criminals: (the emotes)

  • do like the occasional inshallah or mashallah, but that's to some degree using common Arabic phrases in solidarity, and i think that's part of what keeps it in better taste than joking about a genocidaire doing deathbed conversion to the religion of the genocided.

    Exactly!

    i think there's an element of this that originates from a combination of the christian euro trope "X horrible monster accepted Christ on his deathbed, he's in heaven now" with viewing Islam as positive is good, and thus in the mind of the privileged euro, this is a play on the christian deathbed conversion trope.

    Right, and there's a flaw to just doing a find and replace Christianity with Islamic Charaacteristics anyway.

  • Sorry comrade, the pain is real.

    Statistics: most people do recover from something like this. Here's hoping you're in that category.

    Coping: Distraction is good. Community is good -- friends, family, spend time with them doing something other than talking about your ex.

    Also unless you two were poly and that "soemone else" she's with was her other partner, humongous

    on her being with someone else already. Says a lot about her.

  • Sure. That's funny. Graham wasn't going around torturing and murdering Muslims. There's a contextual difference.

  • It's not bullying to harass war criminals for committing genocide.

    Against "Bullying Works" As a Phrase, But In Defense of What I Think People are Trying to Say With It

    The only other thing I have to say about it is that I really don't like the phrase "bullying works”, because "bullying" is simultaneously infantilizing and power-serving. Infantilizing: makes it sound like our interactions are slap fights between schoolchildren rather than arguments over important matters. Power-serving: "Bullying" is always punching down a power gradient, otherwise I don't consider it bullying. I got bullied in childhood and I’m sure so did a lot of people on this very queer very autistic site full of people with too much empathy and compassion for the fascist programming of western “civilization” to mold into obedient collaborators. My goal has never been to become the bully, so I do not like community self-defense in the form of dog piling and dunking on reactionary interlopers being called “bullying”. It is not. If I post

    in response to some wandering shitlib who accuses me of being a Russian bot because I don't think genocide and land-theft is good, that's not me bullying them, that's being confrontational and perhaps using some jester's privilege to rattle them. That is me being part of our collective set of porcupine spines to keep these asshats away. It's not bullying. “Bullying works" is a problematic phrase we should ditch because it legitimizes or defends bullying. But we should not throw away dunking and adversarial confrontation, nor should we discard the powerful weapon that is humor, because we made the mistake of conflating those with bullying. We aren't even doing bullying .

    The way that bullying "works" is by terrorizing and brutalizing people into conforming with societal norms -- cishet, neurotypical, white, fascist. That's not what we're doing if we dogpile a shitlib. We aren't even making them conform with our leftist norms, we're just telling them to get out and stay out.

    The phrase is also bad PR, IMO. Everyone, bullies included, will agree that “bullying is bad”. So if we bill ourselves as the cool bullies we’re portraying ourselves as people who deserve to be viewed with contempt. Posting PPB is only bullying if it is done down the power gradient, and with proper discipline and situational awareness we should not be doing that. Posting PPB up the power gradient is an act of community self defense and love. And that last line is I think what people are trying to say with the problematic phrase "bullying works".

  • This is worse than GroKKK's "white genocode" phase. Bring that version back, please, Mr. Musk