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2 Kings 2:23-24: A story about what happens when you make fun of bald dudes

Proud to be a defender of the faith.

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  • Okay, but you're talking about an entirely different doctrine now: Deification.

    Regardless, I consider myself a Christian because I worship Jesus Christ. Every religious service or act I have ever participated in has been done in His name. The most significant doctrines I believe in were preached by Him.

    I find the idea that because I don't believe in the Athanasian Creed I am therefore not a Christian to be absurd and impossible to support authoritatively. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion on this matter.

    I reject your opinion entirely.

  • There is one God. Jesus is God. Jesus always existed. The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit is referenced in both testaments. The Father is God. The Father always existed. Jesus prays to the Father. The Father and the Holy spirit are both present alongside each other at Jesus’ baptism. Jesus flat out equates the Father, Son and Holy Spirit together when talking of Baptism.

    This is exactly the same doctrine as the Godhead. God the Father is God. God the Son, Jesus Christ, is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Three together in unity, all present during the baptism of Christ. All eternal.

    I don't see a disagreement here.

  • God’s doctrine is supposed to be unchanging, and yet it changes continuously.

    The doctrine is pretty unchanging. You sound like you have a misunderstanding of what is "doctrine" and what is not. I have no interest in convincing you of anything, but I will address some of what you have stated just so other people do not get the wrong idea. Much of what you have stated is incorrect.

    The November 2015 policy was prophecy and the will of god, and then just a couple years later it wasn’t.

    The November 2015 policy change was never prophecy. It was never characterized as prophecy. It was always merely policy.

    Temple ceremonies are supposed to be directly from god, and yet those have changed massively over the years.

    Temple ceremonies have never been directly from God. From the very beginning, the first time they were introduced in Nauvoo.

    Polygamy was supposed to be the everlasting covenant, but then it wasn’t.

    Nope. The everlasting covenant was about our doctrine of eternal marriage in general; polygamy was only included as far as it involved a sealing in the temple. The words describing this are the same as they were when Joseph Smith wrote them in 1843.

    …Which is claimed to be doctrine and the will of god by the prophet, and then changes with the change in leadership.

    Incorrect. The Church makes a clear distinction between its policies and its doctrine. See here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2021/12/come-follow-me/why-does-church-policy-sometimes-change?lang=eng#title1

    Then you aren’t following the guidance of the prophet for every member to be a missionary.

    What, do you think missionaries go around baptizing people at gunpoint? I'm no longer a full-time proselytizing missionary, but even when I was, forcing people to join the Church against their will was never a part of the program. What I'm doing right now is being a missionary, by rebutting the misinformation you are posting. Since you've clearly got no interest in coming back, all I can hope is that you will find peace in your heart and stop spreading misinformation about us.

  • The concept of the trinity defined by the Nicene Creed is vastly elaborated compared to the verses in the New Testament that refer to it. At the same time, there are several instances where the trinitarian view of God is nonsensical, such as when the Father announces His acceptance of Jesus' baptism, or the numerous times Jesus stated that He was "returning" to "His Father". How would a single being return to Himself? Why would He engage in ventriloquism at the scene of His baptism?

    Regardless, we both believe in Jesus Christ, even if we believe in different things about Him. We are therefore both Christians.

  • I don't think anything that you listed is a secret. And yes, I am an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'm not sure your talking points are made in good faith (you sound like you have a massive chip on your shoulder) but I'll try to address them anyway.

    Every prophet is a prophet until a new prophet says something that contradicts the old one, and then the old one was “speaking as a man”.

    This is a mischaracterization about Latter-day Saint beliefs regarding contemporary prophets. Unlike most Christian sects, we believe in an open canon and that God actively communicates to humankind via a prophet today just as in biblical times. A prophet can say one thing and then another prophet can say something else, and both can still be speaking the word of God authoritatively.

    They used to print notices of excommunication in Desert News. Literally. So this idea that “oh no, we can’t tell people about this, they need their privacy” is utter nonsense.

    It is not "utter nonsense", it is the policy of the Church. Your logic is faulty, because it could be used to define any improvement in any organization or group as "utter nonsense". One could just as easily say that because slavery was once legal in the United States, the emancipation proclamation is "utter nonsense".

    So, here’s your fundamental problem: the beliefs are un-falsifiable.

    From where I stand, that is your fundamental problem. You sound like you feel personally affronted when someone has faith in something that you can't observe with your natural senses. That's okay, I get it. It's not for you. Why spend so much energy arguing with an internet stranger whom you identify yourself as being obviously an adherent to such a faith?

    I am comfortable with my faith and have no interest in forcing anyone to believe like I do. However, it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder and are heavily prejudiced against religious people in general and Latter-day Saints in particular. I can't envision a productive outcome to continuing this discussion, but should you have questions about my beliefs and are willing to listen with an open mind, my DMs are always open.

    I wish you a joyous day.

  • Ah yes, the continuously exhausting tradition of Christians who believe in one doctrine introduced hundreds of years after the death of Jesus Christ (trinitarianism) denying the beliefs of Christians who believe in other doctrines introduced after the death of Jesus Christ.

    Our beliefs have much more in common than you think.

  • Christianity in no way encourages abuse of children or even people who are demon possessed.

    Neither does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or its members, who read and believe in the same verses you quoted.

  • Wild conspiracy theories about the shit that goes on at the upper levels of the Mormon church has an unfortunate way of being proven true years and decades after the fact.

    Such as? There are many lies that are commonly spread about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members. Which ones are you referring to that have been "proven true"?

    Has the Mormon church said anything yet about whether or not Tim Ballard was excommunicated, despite his use of elder Ballard’s name and his own sex abuse of women? Or are they still keeping that one quiet?

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not issue public announcements when a member's membership is withdrawn. The decision to do such is made at the stake level. People with some level of public prominence, such as Tim Ballard, are known to announce the withdrawal of their membership themselves, usually in order to garner additional support from their followers. The policies of the Church on this topic are not secret and can be found here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/32-repentance-and-membership-councils?lang=eng#titlenumber71

  • Hildebrandt should be excommunicated for apostasy, but she likely has too much insider knowledge to safely kick out.

    Lol, that's some wild conspiracy theory stuff right there 🤣

  • Franke was always borderline abusive as a mom (and that’s pretty par for the course in Mormon families, TBH)

    I don't know about families in minority sects, but this kind of thing is extremely rare among families in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It certainly happens as much as in any other demographic, but generally rarely. The Church does not tolerate the abuse of children and the actions of Franke will certainly result in excommunication (if it hasn't already).

  • The Associated Press has an obsession with publishing hit pieces against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but it is notable that the Church isn't implicated in the charges against Goodrich and offered a substantial sum of money to the victim even though it was under no legal or moral obligation to do so. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

  • A tiny percentage of Americans hold the majority of that wealth. The average American is not wealthy.

  • Unless something changes in this industry, the only reasonable used cars to purchase will be ICE cars because of this battery issue. Even if the batteries were available, who wants to spend $10k to buy a new battery for their $10k used car?

  • I never said the cost of nuclear was a function of regulation. I do believe that NIMBYism has a lot to do with it.

    The thesis of your remarks seems to indicate that you think that nuclear power generation is inherently more expensive, and I'd be interested in hearing your non-circular reasoning for that implicit assertion. So far, all I've heard is "Nuclear is more expensive because it is."

    A study by MIT in 2020 found that most of the excessive costs related to building nuclear plants are due to lack of decent standardization. Part of the problem is that because of emotional opposition to nuclear, the industry has had little opportunity to actually deploy any of the modular reactor innovations that have been developed in the last 50 years.

    Here's a link to the MIT article: https://news.mit.edu/2020/reasons-nuclear-overruns-1118

    Again, I'm interested in hearing your reasoning for why nuclear is more expensive, other than "it just is" and "renewables are better".

  • How much of those costs are due to obstructionism by anti-nuclear folks like yourself?

    Also, breeder reactors are not "potential future tech". There are numerous contemporary breeder reactors designs, and the very first nuclear reactor to generate grid power in the United States was a breeder reactor.

  • There have been more deaths and major environmental disasters with fossil fuels than with all nuclear accidents combined (including the less reported ones that happened in the 50s and 60s). Nuclear plants are generally safe and reliable. They do not produce excessive waste like wind (used turbine blades) and solar (toxic waste from old panels that cannot be economically recycled).

    Nuclear is the superior non-carbon energy source right now. Climate change is an emergency, so we shouldn't be waiting on other technologies to mature before we start phasing out emitting power plants in favor of emission-free nuclear plants.

  • Housing crisis, 40-year out of date poverty level, a minimum wage that hasn't been increased in 15 years and that has had a continuously decreasing purchasing power for almost 60 years. Most expensive healthcare, rampant student loan debt, record-breaking corporate profits, a self-immolating middle class, etc. etc.

    Honestly, it's hard to find much to be happy about here right now.

  • Caltrops are better because they require less precision to deploy effectively.

  • Oh my gosh, I absolutely love Stephen Fry's narrations! You're right, the production quality of the audiobook, as well as the cadence of the narrator, can make or break it.

  • I’ve tried audiobooks but it seems that - as silly as it sounds - I need closed captions with those

    Dude, same!