Can y’all see some nuance here? The problem isn’t the landlords. It’s the system.
I believe housing is a human right. Housing shouldn’t be a for-profit business. But for better or worse, it’s one of the best investments possible. And the system makes it incredibly difficult to buy a home in certain circumstances, especially on short notice.
My parents helped me buy my first home because I have shit credit. I’m single, I don’t need a ton of space, but there aren’t many small houses with decent yards (I have dogs) on the market.
We decided to go with a duplex so I could have another source of income to pay for twice the house I need. And yeah, I charge my tenant well over half the mortgage.
I also do yardwork, snow removal, maintenance, and I pay out of my ass when anything breaks because I have an obligation to provide for my tenant and I take that seriously.
So do you think I’m a piece of shit for being a landlord?
Edit: apparently none of you know how a mortgage works. When you start paying it off, it’s nearly all interest. If I sell in five years, I will have paid about $80k in interest for maybe $30k in equity. Factor in the $70k+ I’ve already spent on renovations and maintenance, that’s over $120k that I have to try to recoup just to break even. And the way the market looks, I’ll be lucky to get $50k over the purchase price.
In the end, I’m basically leasing from the bank. They’re making all the profit, I’m just trying to offset my living costs. Yes, that means my tenant pays and gets no equity. He also takes on no risk or responsibility.
So now they own a duplex and rent out half of it. What is the morally responsible move here?
Sell it to a property management company so they are no longer an evil landlord?
Push the 60 year old tenant out because he just wants to pay rent and likely isn’t interested in buying a stake in half of a house, then find someone who wants to go splitskies on the mortgage and responsibilities?
How about not letting the tenant pay more than well over half of the mortgage?
I would wager that OP kept the biggest apartment between the two as well.
So OP gets to build equity with someone else’s money and keep the appreciating value of the duplex, all that because he did the maintenance of the property, the strict minimum that society requires for a landlord?
But but but if I don’t exploit others how will I get wealthy and live in luxury while others are driven by the horrors to serve me? Did you even think of that? Did you even think of how I want a nice life without improving the world? God you communists disgust me. I’m gonna go kick my basement kid and shout at them some more because I actually care about society.
So you think I should split the mortgage 50/50 and be responsible for 100% of maintenance?
Home ownership is so, so much more than a mortgage. In the past five years, I’ve replaced a sump pump, a water heater, both furnaces, garage door, chimney flue, garbage disposal, several windows, along with remodeling my tenants entire kitchen while mine looks like ass.
If my tenant’s HVAC breaks, should I replace it, or tell him that’s his responsibility now? Should I tell him he has to mow the lawn and shovel?
My tenant is in his 60s. He wants to live in a nice house with a yard. He doesn’t want to be responsible for upkeep, so he pays me to do it instead.
But I guess I’m no better than a private equity firm that buys entire neighborhoods just to raise rent and increase shareholder value.
If he only paid half, you’d be charging half a mortgage to be a handyman at best. There’s a huge difference because once you’ve paid out less than half the mortgage and he’s paid out more than half, you own a duplex and he owns nothing.
It’s the same assumption all landlords make. The price of sleeping under a roof is equal to the mortgage and the several-hundred-thousand dollar asset at the end is just a little treat for performing the backbreaking labor of having your name on a deed
Do you know what a mortgage is? It’s a 30 year, essentially rent-to-own contract. Neither of us are planning on living here that long. My tenant isn’t planning on living that long. And even if I owned it outright, I’d be paying property tax and insurance.
Sure, I could come out on top financially. I’m definitely not going to turn a profit but it might be cheaper than renting an apartment in the long run. And in the meantime, I take on all the risk and responsibility until I move and sell the house.
Not everything is a capitalist grift. I’m just trying to get by.
Wether you plan to live there or not in 30 years is irrelevant to the situation.
Your tenant pay over half the mortgage. So you get a subsidized housing, keep the appreciated value of the duplex as well and all that for the basic maintenance of the property?
I think they’re not considering how the portion of rent that only goes toward the mortgage is still profit despite it not being accessible until the home is sold or a loan taken against its equity.
It’s absolutely relevant if you know how a mortgage works. Payments are ~75% interest in the first decade. I’m not going to have enough equity at that time to make a profit after all the money I put into the house. I’m looking at a $50k loss if the market stays steady. Still cheaper than renting, though.
Yes, my tenant subsidizes my living costs. That’s the point of a duplex. I set the rent at what I thought was fair, given my expected losses and the work I put in.
There’s no shortage of housing here. If my tenant wanted to, he could buy a house right now. He’s waiting until he retires, specifically because he doesn’t want the responsibilities of home ownership while he’s still working.
I also do yardwork, snow removal, maintenance, and I pay out of my ass when anything breaks because I have an obligation to provide for my tenant and I take that seriously.
You’re right, it is the system that is the problem. The relationship between you and your tenant is unequal. There is nothing forcing you to do right by your tenant by performing all of that maintenance work because you have not entered into an equal agreement with your tenant. You could stop doing all those things and your tenant would have no recourse because they aren’t paying you to perform any service, they are paying you for the privilege of staying in your property. You may feel that you have an obligation to do those things but you aren’t actually obligated by law, and that’s a problem.
That’s not true at all. Not only is it expressly outlined in our lease agreement, there’s plenty of laws regarding landlord obligations and renters’ rights. If I don’t uphold my end of the lease, my tenant absolutely has legal recourse. He can sue for rent and I could get fined for each day the home doesn’t meet requirements.
Welcome to Lemmy, where nuance goes to fucking roll over and die. I volunteer teaching English as a second language, and encourage the use of AI as a learning tool, while being very clear about its many dangers, but people here love to crucify me for it.
I have rented for years, because I have always hated living far from my job, and I don’t drive. Lots of people here foam at the mouth at me choosing that convenience, and at the fact that I finally got a house, using my life’s savings, and now that I am divorced and no longer need that much room, I’m just renting the upper floor.
Same as you, I either fix everything myself, or if I’m not qualified, hire someone to do it. My tenants love the fairly priced apartment, precisely because the price is fair. Cheap enough that them both can work and study, while still being profitable enough for me to help myself pay for the bills, taxes and mortgage.
A lot of people just swallowed the lie whole, thinking that landlords are the scum of the earth, equating it to shit like what Ticketmaster, LiveNation, Blackstone Inc., BP, UnitedHealthcare or Anthem do.
But most of them are just keyboard warriors who won’t move a finger to help others in need, believing themselves righteous just because they didn’t have the opportunities we had.
Can y’all see some nuance here? The problem isn’t the landlords. It’s the system.
I believe housing is a human right. Housing shouldn’t be a for-profit business. But for better or worse, it’s one of the best investments possible. And the system makes it incredibly difficult to buy a home in certain circumstances, especially on short notice.
My parents helped me buy my first home because I have shit credit. I’m single, I don’t need a ton of space, but there aren’t many small houses with decent yards (I have dogs) on the market.
We decided to go with a duplex so I could have another source of income to pay for twice the house I need. And yeah, I charge my tenant well over half the mortgage.
I also do yardwork, snow removal, maintenance, and I pay out of my ass when anything breaks because I have an obligation to provide for my tenant and I take that seriously.
So do you think I’m a piece of shit for being a landlord?
Edit: apparently none of you know how a mortgage works. When you start paying it off, it’s nearly all interest. If I sell in five years, I will have paid about $80k in interest for maybe $30k in equity. Factor in the $70k+ I’ve already spent on renovations and maintenance, that’s over $120k that I have to try to recoup just to break even. And the way the market looks, I’ll be lucky to get $50k over the purchase price.
In the end, I’m basically leasing from the bank. They’re making all the profit, I’m just trying to offset my living costs. Yes, that means my tenant pays and gets no equity. He also takes on no risk or responsibility.
Yes
So now they own a duplex and rent out half of it. What is the morally responsible move here? Sell it to a property management company so they are no longer an evil landlord? Push the 60 year old tenant out because he just wants to pay rent and likely isn’t interested in buying a stake in half of a house, then find someone who wants to go splitskies on the mortgage and responsibilities?
How about not letting the tenant pay more than well over half of the mortgage?
I would wager that OP kept the biggest apartment between the two as well.
So OP gets to build equity with someone else’s money and keep the appreciating value of the duplex, all that because he did the maintenance of the property, the strict minimum that society requires for a landlord?
Miss me with the fake outrage.
But but but if I don’t exploit others how will I get wealthy and live in luxury while others are driven by the horrors to serve me? Did you even think of that? Did you even think of how I want a nice life without improving the world? God you communists disgust me. I’m gonna go kick my basement kid and shout at them some more because I actually care about society.
What’s the appropriate split? How much do you charge?
Starting by not charging over half the mortgage would already be better.
After that, it would depend on the specific of the apartment itself.
Not charging over well over the mortgage to ypur tenant (OP’s words).
OP is doing exactly the same thing as property management companies, but since he is a poor landlord, he is somewhat justified in his decisions?
Get the fuck out of here
How about not profiting off someone else’s need for shelter?
Or I could make it an Airbnb! Screw my tenant and my neighbors, too!
You are a saint for letting your tenant pay more than half the mortgage for basic maintenance of the property. I was wrong.
So you think I should split the mortgage 50/50 and be responsible for 100% of maintenance?
Home ownership is so, so much more than a mortgage. In the past five years, I’ve replaced a sump pump, a water heater, both furnaces, garage door, chimney flue, garbage disposal, several windows, along with remodeling my tenants entire kitchen while mine looks like ass.
If my tenant’s HVAC breaks, should I replace it, or tell him that’s his responsibility now? Should I tell him he has to mow the lawn and shovel?
My tenant is in his 60s. He wants to live in a nice house with a yard. He doesn’t want to be responsible for upkeep, so he pays me to do it instead.
But I guess I’m no better than a private equity firm that buys entire neighborhoods just to raise rent and increase shareholder value.
If he only paid half, you’d be charging half a mortgage to be a handyman at best. There’s a huge difference because once you’ve paid out less than half the mortgage and he’s paid out more than half, you own a duplex and he owns nothing.
It’s the same assumption all landlords make. The price of sleeping under a roof is equal to the mortgage and the several-hundred-thousand dollar asset at the end is just a little treat for performing the backbreaking labor of having your name on a deed
Do you know what a mortgage is? It’s a 30 year, essentially rent-to-own contract. Neither of us are planning on living here that long. My tenant isn’t planning on living that long. And even if I owned it outright, I’d be paying property tax and insurance.
Sure, I could come out on top financially. I’m definitely not going to turn a profit but it might be cheaper than renting an apartment in the long run. And in the meantime, I take on all the risk and responsibility until I move and sell the house.
Not everything is a capitalist grift. I’m just trying to get by.
Wether you plan to live there or not in 30 years is irrelevant to the situation.
Your tenant pay over half the mortgage. So you get a subsidized housing, keep the appreciated value of the duplex as well and all that for the basic maintenance of the property?
Golly, what a deal.
I think they’re not considering how the portion of rent that only goes toward the mortgage is still profit despite it not being accessible until the home is sold or a loan taken against its equity.
They never do. They want to be cashflow positive every month and still keep the equity.
It’s absolutely relevant if you know how a mortgage works. Payments are ~75% interest in the first decade. I’m not going to have enough equity at that time to make a profit after all the money I put into the house. I’m looking at a $50k loss if the market stays steady. Still cheaper than renting, though.
Yes, my tenant subsidizes my living costs. That’s the point of a duplex. I set the rent at what I thought was fair, given my expected losses and the work I put in.
There’s no shortage of housing here. If my tenant wanted to, he could buy a house right now. He’s waiting until he retires, specifically because he doesn’t want the responsibilities of home ownership while he’s still working.
You’re right, it is the system that is the problem. The relationship between you and your tenant is unequal. There is nothing forcing you to do right by your tenant by performing all of that maintenance work because you have not entered into an equal agreement with your tenant. You could stop doing all those things and your tenant would have no recourse because they aren’t paying you to perform any service, they are paying you for the privilege of staying in your property. You may feel that you have an obligation to do those things but you aren’t actually obligated by law, and that’s a problem.
That’s not true at all. Not only is it expressly outlined in our lease agreement, there’s plenty of laws regarding landlord obligations and renters’ rights. If I don’t uphold my end of the lease, my tenant absolutely has legal recourse. He can sue for rent and I could get fined for each day the home doesn’t meet requirements.
If, after all of those expenses (and sure, I guess you can include your labor. If you do it yourself), you are still turning a profit? Yeah, kind of.
Fuck me. Take me now.
Can’t fault that logic lol
Clearly you do
deleted by creator
Welcome to Lemmy, where nuance goes to fucking roll over and die. I volunteer teaching English as a second language, and encourage the use of AI as a learning tool, while being very clear about its many dangers, but people here love to crucify me for it.
I have rented for years, because I have always hated living far from my job, and I don’t drive. Lots of people here foam at the mouth at me choosing that convenience, and at the fact that I finally got a house, using my life’s savings, and now that I am divorced and no longer need that much room, I’m just renting the upper floor.
Same as you, I either fix everything myself, or if I’m not qualified, hire someone to do it. My tenants love the fairly priced apartment, precisely because the price is fair. Cheap enough that them both can work and study, while still being profitable enough for me to help myself pay for the bills, taxes and mortgage.
A lot of people just swallowed the lie whole, thinking that landlords are the scum of the earth, equating it to shit like what Ticketmaster, LiveNation, Blackstone Inc., BP, UnitedHealthcare or Anthem do.
But most of them are just keyboard warriors who won’t move a finger to help others in need, believing themselves righteous just because they didn’t have the opportunities we had.
deleted by creator