Has anyone encountered someone from a country that has had socialist in the past falling for propaganda.

I have a couple friends who know I’m a ML and its difficult to try to discuss communism around them because of how they fall for the anti red propaganda.

I can discuss the issues with them but they often dismiss everything at themselves being an authority on the subject as I do not live in a post socialist society. I ususally write them off as impossible to enter reasonable discussions with and also I focus mostly on the people within my region to agitate. But occasionally they’re a mutual friend or are in the vicinity of the discussion and return to the same old things.

Unnecessary but relevant story:

There was even an incident with a German I met at a party. I talked for a bit about normal stuff and mentioned how hard living was for me in my country because of capitalism and he shut me down not wanting to talk about politics which ofc I respect its a party. But later when I was discussing the feminist progress in socialist countries have accomplished and their impact on our country and culture with a professor I was totally chattin up(she wrote her final thesis on a similar matter), they came over and interrupted the conversation with their own opinions on the matter. Mostly referring to the history in Berlin of which ofc they hadn’t personally experienced. Thankfully this didn’t ruin the vibe and us socialists got social lmao.

But Its something I have encountered repeatedly and I’m not sure how to approach it. Especially as someone from a imperial country.

社会主義採用してた国の人とプロパガンダ信じるのがありますか?少し友達に僕はMLだを知ってます。プロパガンダひっかかるので、辺で共産主義について話は難しです。

あの人とよく話せますけど、よく僕の意見は無視されますよ。あの人にとって、あの人は共産主義について権威振舞いますよ。あの人とちゃんと話無理と思いますて, 同国人とに焦点変わります。しかし、よくあの人辺がいますて、よく僕の話に遮ります。どうしようかな

話 パーティーでドイツ人が合いました.ちょっと間普段話題話しましたて、僕は「資本主義だから僕の生活は硬いです」みたいなて彼は政治的について話しませんだから切り捨てられた。それいいと思いますけど、その後教授と資本主採用してた国のフェミニズム遂げたについて話しましたとき, まじよ遊んでた,(彼女の論文の課題同様もの書いた)あの人は意見ともう一回来て切り捨てられた!大抵バーリンの歴についてあの人体験しませんようだ。とにかく、バイブかわりませんのでしたて社会主義者は社会主義者でしたね~www

とにかく、よくこの問題を会います。どうしようかな、特別に僕は インペリアル コール国民です

edit: spelling mistakes 変わり:誤字でした

  • OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml
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    4 days ago

    I try to engage people whenever I get the chance. I find the best approach is to just talk about things in general, then broach the subject in a neutral or negative (for you) way. E.g. “So what do you think about communism in your country?”, “How did your parents experience communism? Is it as bad as they say?”. Make it a natural part of the dialogue, and they’ll be a lot less defensive, and a lot more willing to engage with you.

    Depending on the country, feelings vary from being very sensitive to being supportive.

    I’ve visited Moscow in the late 90s, and 8 out of 10 people we got to talking to in the metro, they’d pine for the old days. Perhaps it was how bad shock therapy was for them. But if I meet Russians and talk with them, even to this day they are at worst neutral about communism.

    I’ve attended some conferences due to my work where I’ve met some people from former Warsaw pact countries. Where I live there’s also a lot of first and second generation immigrants from Eastern Europe. It is encouraging to see that second generation Russian immigrants are almost all fond of communism, but they have a similar sentiment as you, in that they are really shy to discuss it with other people, and mostly keep it to themselves.

    I’ve met a Khazakh who was not a communist but who though communism did a lot of right things compared to capitalism in Khazakhstan.

    I’ve met an Uzbek who wasn’t as based as the Khazakh, but who thought that propaganda against communism was exaggerated.

    However, if you go west (where I have had a lot more contact to be honest), you start finding the people who get triggered just by mentioning you are a leftist. We have a football team in my country whose fans sport hammer and sickles in the stands. When that team started playing in Europe, and got matched up against Polish teams, the Polish hooligans became enraged and started causing trouble every time they’d come here. And every time there’s a match with Poles, Polish sports press will talk endlessly about how insensitive the other team’s fans are to the horrors inflicted by the Soviets on the Poles. Almost every Pole I’ve talked to is like talking to a brick wall. I’ve talked with about 20-30 Poles. Maybe 5 were neutral or sympathetic to communism.

    Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians are a mixed bag. You get the kind of reactions that the Poles have, but you also get the kind of reactions the Russians have. I’ve noticed that people who grew up in rural areas are a lot more open to communism. And people whose ancestors fought in the Red Army during WW2 might not be communists, but they are extremely reminiscent of communism usually. I’ve met about 8 Estonians, and another 10 Latvians and Lithuanians added together (can’t really remember the right numbers now)

    With Ukrainians, I don’t really know. I’ve only met one and they were already a communist, and it was before the war. But they told me the political division between East and West Ukraine is very real. He advised that one should first figure out which side the person is from before engaging in further questions.

    I’ve met a lot of Romanians (around 10-15), Moldovans (around 15-20) and Bulgarians (around 30-40).

    Moldovans seem really bitter. Most I’ve met are really angry about the Transnistria situation. They blame the fall of communism on it, as well as Russia. And from what I understood, this sentiment was used by ultranationalists to stoke support or them. But if you get them talking about the communist days, most will admit that the country was better ran under communism than now.

    With Romanians and Bulgarians you see a similar sentiment. Most seem to prefer communism had stuck around, but only at least because there was less corruption and incompetence. In general, expect pessimism.

    With former Yugoslavs I have had very few dealings, except for Serbs (due to work) and Croats (due to holidays). Serbs in particular, are reminiscent of the old days. Perhaps their tribulations at the hands of NATO plays a role here. Croats seem to be mostly Nazis or willing to spout extreme right rhetoric at every chance. With the other Yugoslavs, I don’t know, except for 1 Slovene who told me communism is a horrible ideology and just stopped discussing it further.

    I’ve met a lot of East Germans due to holidays, as well as learning the language at an institute stuffed by mostly teachers who grew up in former East Germany. East Germans seem to be the most extreme. Either they really hate communism, or they really wish it was back. Every single one of them though had admitted that the Stasi were never really the boogeymen that Western propaganda portrays them us. As far as they knew the Stasi never bothered or surveilled anyone they personally knew.

    Overall, out of all these people, I’d say there’s a 40% that supports or is neutral/warm towards communism. However, I’ve found only a tenth of those who are against communism would voice legitimate concerns or grievances. The rest were just parroting very basic propaganda.

    If you want to challenge the propaganda, don’t try to get into heated arguments. Most people engage in that kind of thing emotionally, not logically. A good tactic to keep the conversation toned down is to keep asking them clarifying questions. That way, maybe they’ll reconsider in the future.

    • RedLink@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      4 days ago

      When people are immediately inflamed by something I definitely step back on what I’m talking about. Especially with people outside the country I’m in I try to keep it more casual as I don’t have a big investment in discussing it with them. Totally agree with you’re suggestions. Thank you for the insight in your experiences with many difference people. It really helps me feel better about it. I think I’m speaking to a slightly privileged class most of the time and it created a kinda “survivorship bias” effect.

    • LeninZedong@lemmygrad.ml
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      4 days ago

      Should you even argue theory with these people? They seem like the type to just use emotional appeal and anecdotes as the bulk of their argument without actually bothering to even learn the basics of politics. In fact, I feel like they have even less theoretical understanding than the libservantives that use them (and that is saying something).

      Thanks for the anecdotes, by the way. They are a nice look into the outlook citizens of former socialist countries had under socialism.

      • OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml
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        4 days ago

        Oh, I’m not trying to argue with them. It’s great when I meet comrades ofcourse, but that’s not the purpose. Just find it interesting to see what they think about it and hear what they/their families experienced. Even if they are throwing lies/propaganda at me, it’s still useful to know what the lies are. It provides perspective beyond what one reads in books or sees in documentaries.