To put it as plainly as possible, if the proponents of the U.S. settler-colonialism theory are correct, then there is no basis whatsoever upon which to build a multinational working class communist party in this country. Indeed, such a view sees the “settler working class” as instruments of colonialism, hostile to the interests of the colonized people, rather than viewing all working and oppressed people as natural allies in the struggle against imperialism, our mutual oppressor.

A shame, a sad sad shame. For anyone that’s read settlers, or knows about the history of labor zionism, or prioritizes any kind of indigenous voice in their praxis, this is really bad. No peace for settlers! Settlers cannot lead the revolution! I hope we see an end to any respect given to this “settler colonialism is over” politic soon.

  • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    The problem with such statements is that they are inherently defeatist attitudes that only breed complacency and apathy, as if you’re right, then what the hell is the point of trying to organize within nations such as the United States. Further how do you classify who is a settler in a state such as the modern day United States? Do you lock mixed race people out of the movement as well? How about if they are white passing? Or how about recent “white immigrants”? What about the millions of white appearing people descended from settlers that live in abject poverty or are crushed under the oppression of capitalism? You can’t seriously believe that there’s absolutely no way such people could be mobilized or organized to join or lead a revolution, can you?

    In such a racially and ethnically diverse nation like the United States, do you genuinely believe that you will ever effectively mobilize the working class if you limit your demographics to… who exactly? “Pure” Native Americans and “pure” black individuals who can trace their roots back to slavery and have no race mixing in their lineage?

    I also fail to see the issue with the article, the author agrees that the United States is a settler colonial project, and that the lasting consequences of this must be addressed within a socialist society. However, all he states is that chasing bizarre notions of racial purity when organizing only sets back the movement by isolating elements of the working class that are ripe for education and radicalization. What do you see wrong with his statements?

    Ok, lets say you’re right and are able to effectively exclude who you label settlers. Ok… what now? How does this benefit your organizing, popularity among the proletariat, and ability to sway the population to your side?

    • borschtisgarbo@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      No one said anything about the labour movement in the US needing to bar white people from participating in it. The problem with the article is that, one, it is completely unnecessary because, again, no one had advocated for barring white people from organising. It’s just pointless. Two, it outright denied the existence of a labour aristocracy which is often aligned with the bourgeoisie. This is seen in the text the OP quoted.

      • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        “No one said anything….”

        Who is OP referring to then. Which group of people do we think op is talking about.

        • borschtisgarbo@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          “Settlers cannot lead the revolution!” doesn’t mean white people shouldn’t be barred from organising. Settlers have a vested interest in protecting the racist, colonial institutions of the US. This does not say settlers should be barred from leadership positions, it says that the interests of the settler colonial class shouldn’t dictate what the revolutionary movement does. The same thing as you wouldn’t want the labour aristocracy in charge of labour movements, as they have vested interest in protecting the current order. Look at what happened to the communist parties of the US and Europe.

          • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 years ago

            OP gave the game away. They legitimately just despise white people and saying that white people should not be part of the revolutionary movement is exactly what they meant with their statement.

        • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          This seems to be a category error. Settler and white aren’t synonyms even if there is significant overlap in a white supremacist system.

          • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 years ago

            Then who is a settler in the United States at this point? For Israel the distinction is easy. The lines are to muddied in the US.

            Yes it is a white supremacist system, but settlerism is entirely obsolete save for the vestiges of colonial policies that are still maintained.

            • Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml
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              2 years ago

              Even the American liberals realise that vast differences exist in the wealth of the different races in America that are the direct result of explicit discrimination that existed just 2-3 generations ago and implicit discrimination that still exists today. The existence of a settler class in America is undeniable.

              Finding out which individual belongs to which class is one the other, almost always a pointless endeavour since classes are an emergent phenomena in groups of people.

              • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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                2 years ago

                Again, you are conflating race and settlerism. The US is a white supremacist state, but you are using settler and race interchangeably.

                Who is a settler?

                • Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml
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                  2 years ago

                  Again, you are conflating race and settlerism

                  Race is entirely a product of settlerism in the first place.

                  Who is a settler?

                  The settler class as a whole inherited humongous amounts of real estate wealth (which then exploded exponentially further under neoliberalism) and live in the more developed neighbourhoods of the country.

                  Think of suburban single family homeowners. These people are settlers in the truest sense of the word. They are the urbanised version of the settler yeoman farmer. They use more land, water and energy than basically any non-bourgeois class on earth, and by a long shot.

                  Their lifestyle and luxury is fueled by government subsidies (distributed on a racial basis) to the massively inefficient infrastructure and agriculture needed to sustain them.

                  When I say that the US and Canada continue to practice settler colonialism and still have a settler mode of production, I mean it quite literally. North american suburbs are notorious for their urban sprawl, that is, uncontrolled expansion, which is/was fueled by tearing apart dense developments suitable for the lifestyles of the proletariat. Not to mention that the urban proletariat’s production is siphoned off to the suburbs via the government.

                  • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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                    2 years ago

                    I agree wholeheartedly with your point.

                    The only problem is that utterly massive portions of the black community, Latino community, Asian communities, and other races all participate in that “suburban settlerism”. Making race based division in this case pointless.

      • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        The author doesn’t refute labour aristocracy? He simply states that even the labour aristocracy can be mobilized against the the bourgeoisie because they themselves are suffering under capitalism.

        A McDonald’s worker is “labour aristocracy”, do you think they aren’t ripe for radicalization? The author is stating that pushing them away from the movement based on race is foolhardy and bizarre.

    • borschtisgarbo@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      The issue with the article is that it practically implies that there aren’t any contradictions between settlers and non-settlers. It acts as if settlers class interests don’t often align with that of the bourgeoisie. Practically an outright denial of the labour aristocracy. And let’s just be honest, no one has ever advocated for barring white people from participating in the workers’ movement. Not one.

      • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        OPs past comments explicitly state that that’s what they wish for.

        Also this is a conflation of the current stage of settler colonialism in states such as Zionist Israel and the United States. Settler interests are not a thing anymore in the United States, beyond maintaining the systems of power and consequences of previous colonial policy. Also no one is denying the labour aristocracy, however being a “settler” does not impart magical labour aristocracy privilege to even the vast majority of “white” people directly descendant from settlers.

        Also labour aristocracy arises from workers exploiting super profits from external colonies. How does the author sweep aside that in any way?

        • borschtisgarbo@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          Not once in the article is it mentioned that certain parts of the “multinational” US have vested interest in imperialism and internal exploitation. I’ll show you two places where this is completely omitted despite being crucial to the topic

          This is because workers of all nationalities, both oppressed nationality workers and white workers, toil shoulder to shoulder on assembly lines and shop floors, in kitchens, warehouses and offices, from coast to coast. Even as national oppression puts greater pressure on oppressed nationality workers, they are still forged into one multinational working class together with their white siblings as they suffer exploitation together under the same bosses.

          The multinational working class and the liberation movements of oppressed nationalities found themselves with a common enemy – the monopoly capitalist class. Thus, a united front against monopoly capitalism, based on the strategic alliance of the multinational working class and the oppressed nations, became both possible and necessary.

          OP didn’t mention that in this thread though. Albeit i haven’t checked their past comments on other threads

          • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 years ago

            I would suggest reading through their comments. They believe that no one beyond black individuals descended from slaves and indigenous population deserve to participate and lead revolutionary organizations and that white participants can neither understand nor have a place in a decolonial world.

            They froth at the mouth about “Starbucks leftists” over and over. This person is not serious.

            “Deep issues due to the settler base of the parties”

            Ie: it’s not government interference or other issues, it’s the white people who ruin everything.

            • borschtisgarbo@lemmygrad.ml
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              2 years ago

              Okay, yeah i don’t agree with that view. I just misunderstood OPs views

              Still a sprinkle of truth to be found in there though. Specifically when they mention CPUSA, Maki, SACP struggling with the labour aristocracy due to, again, many of them having a vested interest in maintaining the present state of things.

              • StalinistSteve@lemmygrad.mlOP
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                2 years ago

                I mean, that’s what I believe. I don’t think settlers can’t participate but they need to be subjegated to the actual proletariat (ie join the PFLP and not Maki, the EFF not SACP) and focus on decolonial marxism and not a labor politics that ignores very real contradictions. When they lead a communist party, you have a party with labor aristocracy conciousness. Also, I don’t think Ive ever mentioned “starbucks leftists” like was claimed, no clue where that came from other than trying to make me out as a crypto conservative