The issue is that tax payers are already paying for it. It cost money for cops to go out and arrest people, then process them. The homeless person ain’t going to show up to court later, and the tax payer usually eats the cost of all that plus any anti homeless benches or windows.
I think if that the cost gets directed toward housing and food, so they have a stable place to grow from, it would be a better option in the long run.
Step 1) defund police to provide free house and food to socially unfit people
Step 2) socially unfit people trash the place because that’s what junkies do.
Step 3) omg what is the police doing
Step 4) it’s defunded.
Step 5) who could have seen it coming?
Step 1) make up a situation to be mad at.
Step 2) get mad at it.
Step 3) ???
Step 4) allow police to hunt homeless people for sport.
Now, to be serious, step 2 in your example is a lie fed to you by the police state in order to manufacture fear of homeless people and justify its own existence. Therefore the rest of your post is bullshit as well. And when your neighbor has a mental health crisis, you should call social services and doctors, not the police. The fact that your first instinct is to punish and incarcerate mentally unwell people instead of helping them to get better says a lot about your current mindset actually.
step 2 in your example is a lie fed to you by the police state
Lmao dude you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
Stop daydreaming about your perfect world where everyone is happy fun land all the time nice and fun and butterflies.
There’s a social program in my city where you agree to host homeless people for some time and the city pays half the rent + they waive some property taxes
I didn’t do it because I’m not an idiot, every single one of my friends stopped doing it after their first time.
You only get half the rent because whoever you’re hosting doesn’t actually have to pay the other half, and the other benefits you get don’t get remotely close to covering rehabilitation of the apt when the contract runs out you’re finally able to rent to normal folks.
One of my buddies had shit on the ceiling. Like actual human feces, smears all over the ceiling.
Ah, so you’re a landlord, that’s why you’re so evil. Your whole argument here is basically “I can’t exploit them for maximum profit while doing basically nothing so they all are subhumans who don’t deserve help”. That’s vile, man.
Also, I’ll take an educated guess and say that you’re in New York. And since it’s America, these homeless people didn’t have access to psychiatric or narcologic help during their stay, and probably didn’t have any relatives/friends/social workers to support them (you and your friends clearly never offered help beyond what’s required for you and them to receive money). And battling mental illness alone, while still stressing about a job and where to love after the contract expires and they’re kicked out because they’re too disabled to look after themselves doesn’t lead to a speedy recovery. Same applies if they’re battling addiction.
At the same time, yearly police budget of NYC is 5.8 billion dollars. Given that there are around 100 thousand homeless people and NYC median rental rate of ~3100$/month for a studio appartment, NYC could pay for a full studio appartment for each homeless person for the whole year, and it would cost under 2/3 of the police budget. So yeah, it’s not THAT expensive in the grand scheme of things.
Currently, my taxes go into destroying homeless encampments and arresting them, so we could probably use that money for housing and feeding them instead.
I know this is a classical bad faith argument and doesn’t warrant a response, but hilariously, i’ve genuinely done that before. I got to know one of those street punk types and he slept on my couch multiple times.
For what little i know of this internet stranger, i’d rather him stay at my place than you
It’s ok, I own my own home and am a functional human being, I don’t rely on hand outs from strangers to make up for an inability to behave like a person.
You’ve taken the comic way too literally. Homelessness is a policy choice, and politicians are responsible for failing to allocate funds towards prevention, housing, etc. That applies to politicians at every level of government, with varying levels of responsibility/ability.
Reality is more complicated than you’re viewing it.
junkies and other socially unfit people
You don’t seem to understand what leads a person to do drugs either.
The financially wise decision is to house people, keep them fed, and in good health. Because when politicians let housing get fucked, when they let people starve, when they let them be ill, you get problems that get expensive in the form of prison time, police budgets, and crime rates. This is an area where doing the morally right thing is the most cost effective thing. Dehumanizing people as “junkies” and “socially unfit” just makes everything worse, for yourself included.
The financially wise decision is to house people, keep them fed, and in good health.
Feel free to invest into housing and then practice what you preach.
Also, I’m not dehumanizing junkies and socially unfit people. They’re definitely human. Being human however does not entitle you to free shift from people who are actually functional.
If anything, it’s the people who say we should give them a home and food that are the ones who do the dehumanizing, treating them like pets that shouldn’t be left outside in the cold.
Feel free to invest into housing and then practice what you preach.
This problem can’t be solved by personal behavior.
Also, I’m not dehumanizing junkies and socially unfit people. They’re definitely human. Being human however does not entitle you to free shift from people who are actually functional.
You are demeaning people as “junkies and socially unfit”. That’s dehumanization.
treating them like pets that shouldn’t be left outside in the cold.
They aren’t pets, nor are they being treated as such. Your jump to calling them pets further shows how you see them as less than human.
Stop putting words in my mouth, I did say they were biologically human.
You’re the one looking to treat them like pets. I have 4 cats that I house, feed and take care of. Brought them from outside for 3 of them and one from a shelter. This is what you want to do to actual human beings.
House them, feed them, care for them. Like a pet. You’re a sick fuck.
What if the road to becoming “functional” requires, at least in a plurality of cases, help from those that can afford it?
That “free shit” might be what helps them turn their life around. Do you think they have a better chance to improve their station in life if they don’t have access to support from the public?
I wholly reject that it’s somehow dehumanizing to give folks food and shelter during the worst moments in their lives.
Nowhere in my comment did I suggest that, because it would be a silly way to deal with such a big problem. It takes a lot of training to help people in crisis, and a lot of infrastructure to get people on their feet.
It’s not your responsibility alone, it’s not my responsibility alone. If you’d like to discuss any of the points I actually made, great. Otherwise you can try to oversimplify the discussion and I won’t respond anymore
Feed and house them, can you not read?
How many homeless people do you let crash on your couch and eat out of your fridge?
Or is it only ok if someone else pays for it?
The issue is that tax payers are already paying for it. It cost money for cops to go out and arrest people, then process them. The homeless person ain’t going to show up to court later, and the tax payer usually eats the cost of all that plus any anti homeless benches or windows.
I think if that the cost gets directed toward housing and food, so they have a stable place to grow from, it would be a better option in the long run.
You’ll pay cops regardless.
Not if they get defunded
Step 1) defund police to provide free house and food to socially unfit people
Step 2) socially unfit people trash the place because that’s what junkies do.
Step 3) omg what is the police doing
Step 4) it’s defunded.
Step 5) who could have seen it coming?
And your solution is, let me guess:
Step 1) make up a situation to be mad at.
Step 2) get mad at it.
Step 3) ???
Step 4) allow police to hunt homeless people for sport.
Now, to be serious, step 2 in your example is a lie fed to you by the police state in order to manufacture fear of homeless people and justify its own existence. Therefore the rest of your post is bullshit as well. And when your neighbor has a mental health crisis, you should call social services and doctors, not the police. The fact that your first instinct is to punish and incarcerate mentally unwell people instead of helping them to get better says a lot about your current mindset actually.
Lmao dude you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
Stop daydreaming about your perfect world where everyone is happy fun land all the time nice and fun and butterflies.
There’s a social program in my city where you agree to host homeless people for some time and the city pays half the rent + they waive some property taxes
I didn’t do it because I’m not an idiot, every single one of my friends stopped doing it after their first time.
You only get half the rent because whoever you’re hosting doesn’t actually have to pay the other half, and the other benefits you get don’t get remotely close to covering rehabilitation of the apt when the contract runs out you’re finally able to rent to normal folks.
One of my buddies had shit on the ceiling. Like actual human feces, smears all over the ceiling.
Ah, so you’re a landlord, that’s why you’re so evil. Your whole argument here is basically “I can’t exploit them for maximum profit while doing basically nothing so they all are subhumans who don’t deserve help”. That’s vile, man.
Also, I’ll take an educated guess and say that you’re in New York. And since it’s America, these homeless people didn’t have access to psychiatric or narcologic help during their stay, and probably didn’t have any relatives/friends/social workers to support them (you and your friends clearly never offered help beyond what’s required for you and them to receive money). And battling mental illness alone, while still stressing about a job and where to love after the contract expires and they’re kicked out because they’re too disabled to look after themselves doesn’t lead to a speedy recovery. Same applies if they’re battling addiction.
At the same time, yearly police budget of NYC is 5.8 billion dollars. Given that there are around 100 thousand homeless people and NYC median rental rate of ~3100$/month for a studio appartment, NYC could pay for a full studio appartment for each homeless person for the whole year, and it would cost under 2/3 of the police budget. So yeah, it’s not THAT expensive in the grand scheme of things.
i doubt you’d need as many
You will, because you’ll need to evict the junkies out of the place they’re trashing.
Currently, my taxes go into destroying homeless encampments and arresting them, so we could probably use that money for housing and feeding them instead.
Be the change you want to see happen
I know this is a classical bad faith argument and doesn’t warrant a response, but hilariously, i’ve genuinely done that before. I got to know one of those street punk types and he slept on my couch multiple times.
For what little i know of this internet stranger, i’d rather him stay at my place than you
It’s ok, I own my own home and am a functional human being, I don’t rely on hand outs from strangers to make up for an inability to behave like a person.
Way to dehumanize the homeless, buddy
Oh no they’re definitely human, like biologically.
I mean, this can be said of numerous serial killers too.
We’re already paying for it. It’s cheaper (financially and otherwise) to fix the problem instead.
Do you think a town’s mayor has the ability to turn junkies and other socially unfit people into actual functional human beings?
You’ve taken the comic way too literally. Homelessness is a policy choice, and politicians are responsible for failing to allocate funds towards prevention, housing, etc. That applies to politicians at every level of government, with varying levels of responsibility/ability.
Reality is more complicated than you’re viewing it.
You don’t seem to understand what leads a person to do drugs either.
https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-does-rat-park-teach-us-about-addiction
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-80897-8
The financially wise decision is to house people, keep them fed, and in good health. Because when politicians let housing get fucked, when they let people starve, when they let them be ill, you get problems that get expensive in the form of prison time, police budgets, and crime rates. This is an area where doing the morally right thing is the most cost effective thing. Dehumanizing people as “junkies” and “socially unfit” just makes everything worse, for yourself included.
George Carlin said the homeless exist to remind the poor & middle-class what could happen to them if they step out of line.
Feel free to invest into housing and then practice what you preach.
Also, I’m not dehumanizing junkies and socially unfit people. They’re definitely human. Being human however does not entitle you to free shift from people who are actually functional.
If anything, it’s the people who say we should give them a home and food that are the ones who do the dehumanizing, treating them like pets that shouldn’t be left outside in the cold.
This problem can’t be solved by personal behavior.
You are demeaning people as “junkies and socially unfit”. That’s dehumanization.
They aren’t pets, nor are they being treated as such. Your jump to calling them pets further shows how you see them as less than human.
Stop putting words in my mouth, I did say they were biologically human.
You’re the one looking to treat them like pets. I have 4 cats that I house, feed and take care of. Brought them from outside for 3 of them and one from a shelter. This is what you want to do to actual human beings.
House them, feed them, care for them. Like a pet. You’re a sick fuck.
You’re the one using dehumanizing words like junkie and social unfit. I don’t need to put words in your mouth. You’re doing it all on your own.
I already rebutted this.
I sincerely hope you’re just a troll instead of being this maliciously dishonest.
What if the road to becoming “functional” requires, at least in a plurality of cases, help from those that can afford it?
That “free shit” might be what helps them turn their life around. Do you think they have a better chance to improve their station in life if they don’t have access to support from the public?
I wholly reject that it’s somehow dehumanizing to give folks food and shelter during the worst moments in their lives.
Feel free to feed, house and finance a homeless person.
You tell me how it goes.
Be the change you wish to see in society.
You talk like it’s somehow my responsibility to fix other people.
It’s not.
Nowhere in my comment did I suggest that, because it would be a silly way to deal with such a big problem. It takes a lot of training to help people in crisis, and a lot of infrastructure to get people on their feet.
It’s not your responsibility alone, it’s not my responsibility alone. If you’d like to discuss any of the points I actually made, great. Otherwise you can try to oversimplify the discussion and I won’t respond anymore
Yes, unless you’re in some ****hole country ? Hmmm what’s the polite word, rustic ?