Marx failed to consider the very thing, he, wrote thousands of pages about. Tragic really.
Marx famously wrote the communist manifesto while sleepwalking, and later had no memory of the event
Conservatives believe value is pulled from the aether by priests who are capable of communing with factories.
The crazy fuckin thing is this is what they’re accusing socialists of doing in the comments:
All of that sounds like it is intelligent, but the premise that value is in the object rathet than of the object makes it entirely moot.
There was more than one comment like this. Everything they say is further proof they’ve never once read a book and understood it, much less any socialist literature. Otherwise they wouldn’t say shit like this knowing it’s yet another essential concept in Kapital.
What gets me is how they don’t consider reading socialist theory, even just as opposition research. You’ll find plenty of socialists who have read economists like Keynes and Rothbard, politicians like Obama and Bush, or even nonsense like Mein Kampf and the Unabomber manifesto. I know I’ve read these authors, not believed a word of it, but took the time to understand what they were saying and what arguments they were making.
You don’t see this among liberals and reactionaries post-Cold War. They’re so high on the End of History narrative, they no longer feel the need to do any due diligence. Condoleezza Rice, for example, has a degree in Soviet Studies. It’s why she rose through the ranks of the GOP: she was one of the foremost experts on communism from a NATO perspective. But she’s been tossed aside, with everyone jumping on the Trump Train.
You’d think they would consult her regarding the current Russian-Ukrainian War or something…nope! Degrees are for nerds (plus she’s black).
Chevron named an oil supertanker after her, what more does she want!??!
Am I the dumb one here but that doesn’t make any sense lmao. Really magical thinking on their part
Conservatives think that value is pulled by the heroic owners like teeth from the unwilling, slothful, slovenly working class, and Im starting to realize that when I point out to them that wage labor under capitalism is inherently exploitative by forcing one to work for their survival needs they think this is a good thing
it benefits them == it’s good
Is this the Shadow Money Wizard Gang I’ve heard so much about?
My first journeyman to this day argues with me that Canada is socialist and if we were capitalist like America we would be way better off.
I think at this point he’s fucking with me because this person is otherwise one of the smartest people I know
I couldn’t even tell I was in a different country most of the time I was in Canada
Canada defines itself by what it’s not and our entire National identity is “we’re not like the USA don’t put in the newspaper that we’re like the USA”
Yeah, it’s because y’all are insecure about being so much like the US
NO WE’RE NOT
He knows all about what makes value, and understands history and how it unfolded, proving him right again and again. Marxists have never really thought about value before, and history? Marxists have been shown to be wrong over and over again. It’s just history, Marxists, sorry if you don’t have any framework to understand it.
This one is really causing me to twitch. Usually this kind of thing doesn’t get to me, but the deep smugness behind the sheer ignorance, the smarmy certainty in their beliefs that are the exact absolute opposite of reality - it doesn’t get more pure than this.
That post is nothing but circular logic holy shit. “CEOs create value and we know this statement is true because CEOs said so. You Marxists don’t understand history.”
“i’m paid to suck off CEOs” “i’m paid to suck off CEOs” “i’m paid to suck off CEOs”
see he’s creating value
“Clever argument! But you failed to consider the fact that I’m capable of just repeatedly asserting that I’m right until you find greater value in destroying your computer with a hammer and living a life of solitude in the wilderness.”
: “If you love experts and the exceptional so much, then perhaps The ExpertsTM are right about both climate change being real and also racism being for stupid people?”
: “Not THOSE experts! Economics is the only academic field that deserves respect!”: “The ExpertsTM in economics also say income inequality is bad.”: “FUUUCK YOU! wall of text akin to something Sephiroth would say”Right wing? More like the wrong wing, am I right?
A fundamental weakness of socialism is that they don’t understand that exploiting WTO enforced 0% import-fees implemented by SAPs and designed by the IMF to keep them in a debt-trap after a deal made with a dictator installed after CIA backed coup, I sell a pallets worth of pencils back to the company running our sweatshop in that poor country (where we pay the men $1/day (and that’s only possible because women do all the other social work for “free” at home)) but I charge $1k per box of pencils so I can transfer all the profit made by them to our European office and this is actual how the value is created. Also, they don’t even need pencils.
The lazy bourgeois economist’s “takedown” of Marxism inevitably rests on dodging the arguments, because if you take Marxism dead-on they get bodied.
I’ve never seen a more pristine example of a straw man, let alone in the wild. Value is fundamental to what constitutes Marxist theory. It’s like claiming Garfield hates pasta. Even beyond the strawman, I’m reminded of this quote
“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops” - Stephen Jay Gould
At which point
he’sthe OP, Nick Tyrone, is going to pivot to “Capitalism lifts people out of poverty” and “it’s not 0 sum” and “it’s not violent, only the state is violent because starvation is a baseline” so the beauty would be wasted on him.Stephen J Gould was a dipshit? Aw dang it
Huh? What’s dipshitty about the quote? Seems cool to me. He’s just saying Einstein probably wasn’t super special and would-be Einsteins never got recognition because they were born too poor.
I get the sneaking suspicion that @RNAi@hexbear.net saw the last paragraph where I used a vague pronoun and thought the criticism was levied at Gould. Otherwise I’m willing and open to learn more about Gould.
This,
I always liked that quote from Gould, was afraid he nullified it with capitalist diarrhea propaganda
Yeah probably something like that
Is there an issue with the quote? Am I misreading?
“it’s not 0 sum”
I know it’s not that important, but this really bothers me because it’s not just not positive sum, entropy seems to imply that it’s negative sum.
Marx for like 3,000 pages: trust me bro, value is just there and we just gotta take it bro
Iteration #90878720 of “Marx failed to consider [something Marx talked about in the first four pages of Capital]”
He has a whole book titled “Value, Price, and Profit” more of a pamphlet, but it’s still longer than anything this goober would read
I swear they do this on purpose. The goal is to reinforce to their audience that Marx never said anything of “value” in his work. So CHUDs will repeat that mantra and never actually pick up a book. Which in turn means the actually pretty understandable first few pages of capital will never actually reach them and they’ll never understand economics.
I did not spend hours of my life listening to somebody rant about linen in an audiobook to see somebody say Marx doesn’t know what the fuck “value” is
we’ve all heard of the labor theory of value, but how about saturation and hue?
checkmate tankies
Guy has never heard of the labor theory of value, that’s embarrassing.
Someone must have told him about it last night because his most recent tweet sez:
“To all the socialists: the labour theory of value, posited by Marx, is total horseshit. Reality has disproven it again and again.”
Despite liberals best efforts, I have yet to see a capitalist turn a tree into a chair by only throwing money at it.
They can also try thinking great ideas at it. Just have to really visualise that revolutionary (lol) new recliner design you thought up last night
This is why programmers frequently end up in the weird conservative/liberal camp. It’s the closest to ‘if you can dream it you can do it’ anyone can get while still laboring.
That’s also why these same people are obsessed with AI, because even the relatively simple labor of programming is too much for them
If the money is coins and you throw them hard enough it’s kinda like water jet cutting
Look if you can get a chair from that I’m willing to overlook the fact that throwing is labor
not money alone but for everything there’s a design(er) (Johnny Swing, weird name lol)
“Johnny Swing” sounds like a
alias like “Racial Jake” or “Mr. Fireworks”
New advanced technology: a coin blaster!
Innovative!! here’s 23 million in angel investor money don’t spend it all on coins
😂 if labor didn’t create value, why would anyone labor or pay someone to labor?
🤣
Capital volume 1 chapter 1: still managing to foresee and address reactionary “got-ya” moments 158 years later.
is this an example of a valuable idea created by a talented person?
what value, Gentle Nicholas, did the market assign this valuable idea? surely it is worth millions upon millions and yet you have chosen to give it away, like a turd-eating child of fools.
clearly you should keep these gems to yourself and only exchange them, quietly, with the wealthy aristocrats that can afford the splendor of your mind-diamonds.
Talented people with ideas? Clearly, he must be referring to workers.
Sorry, the idea is money. Also the talent is money. Also I get all the value because I had the money.
The talent of being born to a rich family
