China is Socialist, so it already suppresses the bourgeoisie. Russia and Iran are nationalist, but this nationalism also puts them at odds with western Imperialism and towards countries like China. Aligning with the Western bourgeoisie against Russia and Iran weakens the chance of them becoming Socialist, as it would likely result in an opening of their markets to foreign plunder and perpetuation of Imperialism. On the other hand, by siding against Western Imperialism, they become more integrated into the Chinese side of the global economy, pushing them towards Socialism.
I wouldn’t say Russia and Iran are friends, they certainly aren’t Socialist by any stretch, but they can be depended on insofar as they work against the system by which the West collectively loots and plunders the Global South, depressing its development.
Marx never once said that the bourgeoisie cannot exist under Socialism. Marx said that Communism, which is after the transition from Capitalism to Communism (which Lenin and other Marxists post-Marx call “Socialism”), is the means by which to sublimate private property (and therefore eliminate class society once and for all). Here’s a line from the Communist Manifesto:
We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class, is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class, to win the battle of democracy.
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i. e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total of productive forces as rapidly as possible.
This phase is described by Marx as such in Critique of the Gotha Programme:
Between capitalist and communist society lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other.
Marx stated that the job of the Proletarian state is to gradually appropriate Private Property and to fold it into the public sector. Why? Well, here’s an example from The German Ideology:
We shall, of course, not take the trouble to enlighten our wise philosophers by explaining to them that the “liberation” of man is not advanced a single step by reducing philosophy, theology, substance and all the trash to “self-consciousness” and by liberating man from the domination of these phrases, which have never held him in thrall. Nor will we explain to them that it is only possible to achieve real liberation in the real world and by employing real means, that slavery cannot be abolished without the steam-engine and the mule and spinning-jenny, serfdom cannot be abolished without improved agriculture, and that, in general, people cannot be liberated as long as they are unable to obtain food and drink, housing and clothing in adequate quality and quantity. “Liberation” is an historical and not a mental act, and it is brought about by historical conditions, the development of industry, commerce, agriculture, the conditions of intercourse…[There is here a gap in the manuscript]
In short, the job of Socialist society is to immediately sieze large and key industries, and gradually appropriate industry and sectors that grow over time. It isn’t an instantaneous transformation into Communism, there is a protracted period of sublimation of property relations as the material processes develop and give way to socialist relations.
You are replying to a deleted meme. Yes ive read marx. I think i just disagree with your assessment that china will hit the communism button after western imperialism is somehow dismantled.
You don’t create Communism by pressing the “Communism button,” though, that’s the entire point of Scientific Socialism as created by Marx and Engels. You achieve it through development, under a State controlled by the Proletariat. The PRC’s economy is already Socialist, the large firms and key industries are firmly public and the medium firms are heavily controlled, as long as it keeps developing and stays the course it will continue to develop as a Socialist country will.
Holy moly im being sarcastic mate. Yes it is a historical process, but i believe what is happening in china is closer to state capitalism than socialism…i would even say it leans a certain flavor of corpratism ie fascism. The socialism sticker on the front is meaningless to me. You are still upholding the bourgeoisie and capitalist social relations including imperialism ie weatlth extraction abroad meanwhile suppressing labor at home… I definitely would not call it proletarian rule by any means. Add on to that the strong nationalist fervor, and well ya man i dunno what to tell you. I guess everything is socialism since we are all a part of the historical process towards communism.
The “Socialism Sticker” is having a Socialist economy, where the overwhelming majority of the large firms and key industries are publicly owned and planned, and Capital movement is heavily restricted if not approved by the CPC. They do not “uphold the bourgeoisie” or “Capitalist social relations,” they are gradually dismantling them as Marx said they should be, by gradually wresting Capital from them as public ownership becomes economically required for further advancement, all under a Proletarian State. There is no other way to abolish the bourgeoisie than by erasing their economic foundations:
The essential condition for the existence, and for the sway of the bourgeois class, is the formation and augmentation of capital; the condition for capital is wage-labour. Wage-labour rests exclusively on competition between the labourers. The advance of industry, whose involuntary promoter is the bourgeoisie, replaces the isolation of the labourers, due to competition, by their revolutionary combination, due to association. The development of Modern Industry, therefore, cuts from under its feet the very foundation on which the bourgeoisie produces and appropriates products. What the bourgeoisie, therefore, produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable.
China is still a developing country, it can’t just whisk away all elements of commodity production, especially not in the context of a Capitalist-dominated global economy which it needs to interact with in order to supplant, such as by building up the Global South through multilateral infrastructure deals (such as BRI).
And no, China is not Imperialist, and it isn’t suppressing labor at home. This is just vague gesturing, hard analysis finds that neither of these assertions hold water. To further jump and call the PRC fascist is ludicrous, and indicates an utter lack of understanding of Socialism and fascism in general, fascism is a bourgeois society exerting its Capitalist strength to crush worker organizations, not a Socialist state that eliminates extreme poverty, combats desertification, pushes for multilateralism and decolonization, and has a majority publicly owned economy.
Ehh these highly nationalist states def aint my friend. Yes all bourgeoisie should be supressed globally.
China is Socialist, so it already suppresses the bourgeoisie. Russia and Iran are nationalist, but this nationalism also puts them at odds with western Imperialism and towards countries like China. Aligning with the Western bourgeoisie against Russia and Iran weakens the chance of them becoming Socialist, as it would likely result in an opening of their markets to foreign plunder and perpetuation of Imperialism. On the other hand, by siding against Western Imperialism, they become more integrated into the Chinese side of the global economy, pushing them towards Socialism.
I wouldn’t say Russia and Iran are friends, they certainly aren’t Socialist by any stretch, but they can be depended on insofar as they work against the system by which the West collectively loots and plunders the Global South, depressing its development.
deleted by creator
Marx never once said that the bourgeoisie cannot exist under Socialism. Marx said that Communism, which is after the transition from Capitalism to Communism (which Lenin and other Marxists post-Marx call “Socialism”), is the means by which to sublimate private property (and therefore eliminate class society once and for all). Here’s a line from the Communist Manifesto:
This phase is described by Marx as such in Critique of the Gotha Programme:
Marx stated that the job of the Proletarian state is to gradually appropriate Private Property and to fold it into the public sector. Why? Well, here’s an example from The German Ideology:
In short, the job of Socialist society is to immediately sieze large and key industries, and gradually appropriate industry and sectors that grow over time. It isn’t an instantaneous transformation into Communism, there is a protracted period of sublimation of property relations as the material processes develop and give way to socialist relations.
You are replying to a deleted meme. Yes ive read marx. I think i just disagree with your assessment that china will hit the communism button after western imperialism is somehow dismantled.
You don’t create Communism by pressing the “Communism button,” though, that’s the entire point of Scientific Socialism as created by Marx and Engels. You achieve it through development, under a State controlled by the Proletariat. The PRC’s economy is already Socialist, the large firms and key industries are firmly public and the medium firms are heavily controlled, as long as it keeps developing and stays the course it will continue to develop as a Socialist country will.
Holy moly im being sarcastic mate. Yes it is a historical process, but i believe what is happening in china is closer to state capitalism than socialism…i would even say it leans a certain flavor of corpratism ie fascism. The socialism sticker on the front is meaningless to me. You are still upholding the bourgeoisie and capitalist social relations including imperialism ie weatlth extraction abroad meanwhile suppressing labor at home… I definitely would not call it proletarian rule by any means. Add on to that the strong nationalist fervor, and well ya man i dunno what to tell you. I guess everything is socialism since we are all a part of the historical process towards communism.
The “Socialism Sticker” is having a Socialist economy, where the overwhelming majority of the large firms and key industries are publicly owned and planned, and Capital movement is heavily restricted if not approved by the CPC. They do not “uphold the bourgeoisie” or “Capitalist social relations,” they are gradually dismantling them as Marx said they should be, by gradually wresting Capital from them as public ownership becomes economically required for further advancement, all under a Proletarian State. There is no other way to abolish the bourgeoisie than by erasing their economic foundations:
China is still a developing country, it can’t just whisk away all elements of commodity production, especially not in the context of a Capitalist-dominated global economy which it needs to interact with in order to supplant, such as by building up the Global South through multilateral infrastructure deals (such as BRI).
And no, China is not Imperialist, and it isn’t suppressing labor at home. This is just vague gesturing, hard analysis finds that neither of these assertions hold water. To further jump and call the PRC fascist is ludicrous, and indicates an utter lack of understanding of Socialism and fascism in general, fascism is a bourgeois society exerting its Capitalist strength to crush worker organizations, not a Socialist state that eliminates extreme poverty, combats desertification, pushes for multilateralism and decolonization, and has a majority publicly owned economy.
Haha seriously, give me that socialism sticker!