There’s no amount of “adult perspective” that’s gonna change LoTR into anything other than a war story, yes actually a lot of people die in it, learn to read dumbass
But you weren’t talking about people dying. You were talking about Gandalf ‘dealing out a shitload of death and judgement’.
Which, he has, like, one of the lowest body counts in the book, dude. He killed that stupid Balrog after it tried to murder his friends. Maybe a few of the Minas Tirith invaders? But most of that fight he was trying to save Faramir.
And the only person he ‘passed judgement on’ was Saruman, and that was only after an okay from the higher-ups. And all he did then was kick him out of the wizards. That’s it.
Kinda think maybe you should learn to read. Or maybe learn the joy of re-reading.
He did find Erkenbrand and lead him and his men to Helm’s deep, but his presence alone drives the hillmen to collapse in fear; he never lays a hand on them. Erkenbrand and his troops rout the orcs and hillmen, and kill quite a few (mostly orcs, as the books note that at that point thanks to Gandalf many of the hillmen lost the will to fight and surrendered, and the Rohirrim accepted that surrender).
So I guess if you want to stretch the definition of ‘kill’ to ‘told an army their king needed help and showed them where to go’ then I suppose you could lay those deaths at Gandalf’s feet? Although I would argue he actually saved lives there, since if they had continued fighting Erkenbrand’s men and Theoden’s men would have torn all the hillmen apart.
At the battle of Minas Tirith he holds the broken gate the whole night against the leader of the Nazgûl (by parking himself in front of it and refusing to move), but then once backup arrives he has to turn and run for it to save Faramir from being burned alive, so he doesn’t get into a fight then either.
At the Battle at the Gate him killing, specifically, isn’t mentioned either way. One could assume from the writing that he at last drew his sword and finally killed people in support of being as big a distraction as possible, but Tolkien never explicitly said, like he did for some of the other characters. All he says is:
Upon the hill-top stood Gandalf, and he was white and cold and no shadow fell on him. The onslaught of Mordor broke like a wave on the beleaguered hill
Which could just be him intimidating people again, although I doubt it. But even then, given how humans in the employ of the Dark Powers fear him so much, it’s more likely he was just fighting orcs.
Jesus fucking Christ this is some high level cope, if you’ve convinced yourself that Gandalf carried a sword through this many battles on the front lines without ever killing anybody then too far up your own ass to see daylight, you are a waste of time
I’m going by what the book said, dude. It’s called reading. It’s not as if Tolkien was afraid to talk about his heroes killing, either; for heaven’s sake, Gimli and Legolas even have a contest counting kills at one point!
And again, Gandalf was only in two battles (Helm’s Deep and Morannon) and in Helm’s deep it’s not said that he killed anyone.
Why are you so desperate to believe Gandalf is out there whacking everyone with a sword, never mind what the book says?
On an unrelated note, earlier you said that you ‘moved on’ from fantasy to nonfiction, as though that somehow makes you more mature? Or something? Why? What makes you see fantasy as lesser than biographies and history books?
Um… what? Yeah, you might want to go back and re-read LOTR from an adult perspective. Seems you missed a lot.
See, though, for me it’s the people that say
That worry me the most. Who, exactly, are we being required to kill, here?
There’s no amount of “adult perspective” that’s gonna change LoTR into anything other than a war story, yes actually a lot of people die in it, learn to read dumbass
But you weren’t talking about people dying. You were talking about Gandalf ‘dealing out a shitload of death and judgement’.
Which, he has, like, one of the lowest body counts in the book, dude. He killed that stupid Balrog after it tried to murder his friends. Maybe a few of the Minas Tirith invaders? But most of that fight he was trying to save Faramir.
And the only person he ‘passed judgement on’ was Saruman, and that was only after an okay from the higher-ups. And all he did then was kick him out of the wizards. That’s it.
Kinda think maybe you should learn to read. Or maybe learn the joy of re-reading.
Gandalf was directly involved in killing people you fucking moron
Who then?
A shitload of easterlings and hill folk just off the top of my head, try reading the books
I have. He didn’t.
He did find Erkenbrand and lead him and his men to Helm’s deep, but his presence alone drives the hillmen to collapse in fear; he never lays a hand on them. Erkenbrand and his troops rout the orcs and hillmen, and kill quite a few (mostly orcs, as the books note that at that point thanks to Gandalf many of the hillmen lost the will to fight and surrendered, and the Rohirrim accepted that surrender).
So I guess if you want to stretch the definition of ‘kill’ to ‘told an army their king needed help and showed them where to go’ then I suppose you could lay those deaths at Gandalf’s feet? Although I would argue he actually saved lives there, since if they had continued fighting Erkenbrand’s men and Theoden’s men would have torn all the hillmen apart.
At the battle of Minas Tirith he holds the broken gate the whole night against the leader of the Nazgûl (by parking himself in front of it and refusing to move), but then once backup arrives he has to turn and run for it to save Faramir from being burned alive, so he doesn’t get into a fight then either.
At the Battle at the Gate him killing, specifically, isn’t mentioned either way. One could assume from the writing that he at last drew his sword and finally killed people in support of being as big a distraction as possible, but Tolkien never explicitly said, like he did for some of the other characters. All he says is:
Which could just be him intimidating people again, although I doubt it. But even then, given how humans in the employ of the Dark Powers fear him so much, it’s more likely he was just fighting orcs.
Jesus fucking Christ this is some high level cope, if you’ve convinced yourself that Gandalf carried a sword through this many battles on the front lines without ever killing anybody then too far up your own ass to see daylight, you are a waste of time
I’m going by what the book said, dude. It’s called reading. It’s not as if Tolkien was afraid to talk about his heroes killing, either; for heaven’s sake, Gimli and Legolas even have a contest counting kills at one point!
And again, Gandalf was only in two battles (Helm’s Deep and Morannon) and in Helm’s deep it’s not said that he killed anyone.
Why are you so desperate to believe Gandalf is out there whacking everyone with a sword, never mind what the book says?
On an unrelated note, earlier you said that you ‘moved on’ from fantasy to nonfiction, as though that somehow makes you more mature? Or something? Why? What makes you see fantasy as lesser than biographies and history books?