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Posts
15
Comments
1859
Joined
3 yr. ago

i am more than willing to engage on any positive claim you want to make (i probably agree with a lot of them). what i’m not willing to do is tolerate personal attacks and dogpiling.

  • The central analogy to the civil rights movement and the women's movement is trivializing and ahistorical. Both of those social movements were initiated and driven by members of the dispossessed and excluded groups themselves, not by benevolent men or white people acting on their behalf. Both movements were built precisely around the idea of reclaiming and reasserting a shared humanity in the face of a society that had deprived it and denied it. No civil rights activist or feminist ever argued, "We're sentient beings too!" They argued, "We're fully human too!" Animal liberation doctrine, far from extending this humanist impulse, directly undermines it.

  • I've done so numerous times

  • this reads like cope. make any excuse you want, but if you want to save animals from the livestock industry, you're going to need to choose an effective method.

  • and I'm telling you that you have made a leap of logic

  • Doctorow does not endorse oppression but he supports it through advocacy

    this is so self contradictory no one should take it seriously

  • you're stretching the definition of support to meaninglessness.

  • so when you said "what he's essentially saying" you were lying. what you could have truthfully said is "i'm afraid he might mean". you chose to put words in his mouth. that's bad faith.

  • it's prima facie: you weren't simply quoting him, you were re-interpreting what he was saying.

  • btw, endorsing oppression and supporting oppression are not the same thing.

    this is a semantic game

  • You’ve grossly missed his thesis.

    the fucking irony

  • You can (and should) boycott individually

    if it were an effective method, i could agree. if it's not effective, then it's not a good use of our effort.

  • He restated his points in multiple different ways so there is no question about his thesis

    and yet you still added to it. your bad faith interpretation of his statements needs no further evidence for anyone who has read this conversation.

  • I did not misunderstand. you are intentionally misinterpreting him.

  • everything you've said in this specific comment to which i'm responding is good faith interpretation of what he said. but this isn't the whole of what you're claiming he is saying and implying.

  • I quoted him.

    and then you made a leap of logic from what he said.

    this phrase:

    He’s essentially saying:

    is a huge red flag. you're not just quoting him. you're telling everyone else how to interpret what he's saying, removed from the context of his piece.

  • you are making leaps of logic and accusing him of making statements he is not. this is bad faith.

  • anyone who says "Cory doctorow supports oppressors and tells others to do the same" is lying.