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Wrench

@ Wrench @lemmy.world

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523
Joined
3 yr. ago

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • There was a branch in this thread where someone else made the accusation. But fine, I retract the statement. It wasn't your words, so no point bringing it up.

    I find the request for impossible evidence to be absurd. Since the US did not take the measures you proposed 2 months ago, there is no evidence to present for either of our sides.

    I point to Netanyahu's recent and past decisions and complete unwillingness to make concessions, as well as how this conflict has been beneficial to his standing.

    But obviously, we can't know for sure what would have happened. But Isreal has never been known to be easily forced, or even compromise to anything not vastly in their favor.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • Why “most likely?” Based on what evidence?

    See: the entire history of Isreal, and the middle east as a whole.

    And if you feel that you need to aid another nation to continue slaughtering children to save your own, maybe you don’t have much worth saving.

    Geo-politics are complicated, and more complicated when your own country is currently fighting a fascist movement.

    You dismiss the very notion that all but declaring war on Isreal could possibly have negative effects on the Dems political standing. And let's not mince words. Declaring no fly zones, DMZs and enacting sanctions, as you literally explicitly suggested, is one step away from declaring war.

    And yet I've been accused of arguing in bad faith. Right.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • They could have spent that two months pressuring Israel to open aid corridors for trucking.

    And most likely have nothing to show for it. At least the dock has already achieved getting millions of pounds of aid into Gaza, and hopefully many more millions before it breaks again.

    And I’m sorry, “we have to aid Israel in its genocide to stop the Republicans from winning” is a bullshit excuse.

    Maybe to you, but it's a real risk. Not everyone lives in this progressive bubble of yours. I have zero confidence in the voting public, and I have far less confidence that the Republicans won't actively encourage genocide in Gaza and beyond given the president and a majority in the other branches.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • I would rather do both, because I find it incredibly unlikely that stopping arms shipments today would do anything at all to dampen Israel's ability to blockaid the land routes for a very long time. I also don't think Isreal is incapable of finding weapons suppliers outside of the US if push comes to shove.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • No. I'm saying that relying on that leverage completely, and expecting a fast and complete solution, and allowing the Gazians to starve to death if that hailmerry doesn't work, is completely asinine.

    And that's not even taking into account what the absolute 180 on foreign policy WRT Isreal will cost us in the short and long term. It could very possibly give the entire election over to the Republicans. Which would obviously be even worse for Gaza.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • You claim I'm arguing in bad faith, but all your points make insanely huge assumptions on what the US is plausibly capable of forcing, and in an insanely short timespan. Particularly taking into account how little Isreal has been willing to negotiate in good faith currently and in past.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • Ok. And how has that negotiation been going?

    I prefer to actually do what can be done in the short term, while we continue to work on long term solutions in tandem. Not just put all your eggs in the long term basket, and let the Palestinians starve if it takes too long, or doesn't happen at all.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • My point is that stopping aid to Isreal won't put food in Palestinian bellies any time soon. And when they're starving right now, it's a useless gesture.

    Actually doing what CAN be done right now, which is bypassing land chokepoints by building a non-perfect dock to offload millions of lbs of food, is the best solution I've heard of thus far, to actually stave off the immediate problem of starvation.

    I'm not saying I approve of continuing to send military aid to Isreal. We can attack this from multiple fronts, but getting food and medical aid into Gaza is the most urgent need. And I don't find your efforts to undermine the most effective, if flawed, means of getting those supplies into Gaza to be helping the Palestinian's plight in the slightest.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • And what other conclusion is there to your answers?

    Me: How would YOU put food into Palestinian hands?

    You: Stop sending aid to Isreal.

    Me: How does that put food in Palestinian hands?

    You: Aid trucks

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • You can't be dense enough to believe that if the US stops sending Isreal aid, that suddenly Isreal will suddenly magically be completely disarmed, and aid trucks will suddenly be able to move freely. Aid trucks aren't even on the table.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • And how exactly will that put food in the hands of the starving Palestinians?

    Again with the "if it's not perfect, it's not worth doing" bullshit I'm so tired of hearing about this conflict.

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • What's your solution, then? Overnight peace in the middle east?

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • Modular military engineering materials are both obscenely expensive, and temporary. They are meant as a bandaid to quickly solve transportation problems to enable logistics.

    Also, being modular, they can be replaced easily and quickly.

    If you want a hardy lifetime dock, you're going to need months to years under ideal circumstances. And then Isreal could "accidentally" blow it up with a "rogue" strike, and there would be no option but to scrap the whole thing. Because most permanent docks aren't meant to handle military strikes.

    But yeah, let's just ignore that the building constraints around this are just about the worst case imaginable. Let's just keep whining about how a solution isn't perfect and therefore worthless like all the other Leftist comments on Lemmy

  • Gaza pier used for aid delivery has been reconnected, U.S. officials say

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  • It's almost like they had to make compromises because their options were limited by materials, time, and access to the site.

  • Removed

    YSK: lemmy.ml is managed by tankies, and lead lemmy developer is a tankie

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  • R/conservative had the habit of locking most comment threads to members only. It may have been an exclude instead of include list.

  • Colorado officials reach $8.5 million settlement with woman who was left handcuffed in a police car that was hit by a train

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  • I'm not an expert on the origins of police in the US, but I thought their origin story was basically to oppress the civilian population to protect corporate property.

    Like, their entire purpose and why they were given authority was so that they could beat down civilians in the name of corporate profits. Which is the opposite of what you're claiming.

  • Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem

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  • We can defederate them now. Content will move as it reaches fewer eyes.

  • China makes last-ditch charm offensive to avert trade war with EU

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  • More, when in cases like this, the Chinese government is subsidizing the car's manufacturing. Even without the tariffs, they aren't playing on a level playing field. And guess what happens after they corner the EV market as planned?

    It's not hard to comprehend. The strategy is simple. Makes you wonder about the motives behind those crying "free market"

  • Trump asks judge to lift limited gag order in his hush money case

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  • And appeals exhausted.

    And his nutters have already stated they want to find and physically harm the jurors. So honestly, Trump should be gagged from talking about the jurors indefinitely.