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Posts
9
Comments
629
Joined
3 yr. ago

  • I'm doing about 20 hours of work a week as part of a socialist org, in service of building up a center of power to actually be able to challenge the lesser and greater fascist.

    I'm thinking long term, because I'm not satisfied with "just vote for the less fascist party every four years as each party keeps getting more fascist" If all the work you're doing is within the confines of bourgeois sham-democracy you'll never be able to defeat fascism. Fascism is capitalism in crisis. You can either find a magic cure to stop the contradictions of capitalism from heightening or you can move toward defeating it.

    The latter is the only one that has been demonstrated to actually work.

  • I'm dismissing your framing; I dont live in a swing state, dont try to convince me to vote for the lesser fascist.

    My question is, do you care about stopping fascism or do only you care about delaying it for another four years?

    Do you care enough about stopping fascism to put in work to stop it outside of election day and trying to post your way into getting people to vote? Like, seriously, are you interested in putting in actual work to prevent fascism in the US in our lifetimes? This isn't a gotcha I'm trying to set a baseline.

  • What are you doing to stop fascism outside of voting for the lesser fascist?

    Fascism cannot be defeated through the ballot box. It is capitalism in decay, when capitalist democracy becomes unviable and the capitalist ruling class choose capitalism over democracy.

  • "What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed, the moment when the government is ready to brazenly butcher the people. Only when the Square is awash with blood will the people of China open their eyes" - Chai Ling

    But they didn't get it, so they had to exaggerate armed skirmishes into "they machinegunned sitting student protestors"

    It can’t be the “Tiananmen Square Massacre” for you because then couldn’t draw in PLA members who had heart attacks and died elsewhere that day because they weren’t at the square.

    You can literally find photos of protestors posing with burnt and mutilated bodies of PLA soldiers

  • Oh fuck he is trying to make me say "tiananmen square massacre" now Xi is going to personally come to my house and eat all my grain with his giant spoon.

    Or maybe I say June 4th incident because it didn't happen in tiananmen square and massacre isn't the right word for it, considering it was armed PLA vs western armed protestors with around equal casualties before it ended.

  • The June 4th incident is what it is called in mainland China.

  • There are a lot of western narratives about the June 4th incident that are atrocity propaganda contradicted by western reporting at the time of the incident

  • China hosted one

  • Hiking, socialist work or socialist socializing, friends, that's mostly it

  • The point is that there is a universalizing here of something that isn't universal

  • Idk I crush on a lot of folks, I'm also in a long term (polyam) relationship.

    Whether or not rejection is a part of life or healthy in the long term it is going to be bad while you’re experiencing it

    Why?

    when seeing the object of your affection with someone else could arguably be unbecoming since you’ll want the best for them but it’s about ad human as it gets.

    I tend to feel compersion over envy

  • Neither is bad.

  • But instead we are arguing the semantics over whether a man should take responsibilty for his own bigotry or whether the entire global leftist project should bear that burden for him.

    I'm not having that argument? I am sort of confused as to why you think I'm making that argument?

    I think you're continuing to read me as appealing to pragmatism when I am instead appealing to learning from people who he respects on why he is personally wrong on the issue.

    I would once again ask you, what specifically do you want to happen? If you're having a hard time articulating it, I would suggest looking at the constructive criticism handbook. https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-3/constructive-criticism.html?ref=redstarcaucus.org

    Man is a person. He answers to a community. He’s not actually a party official of the revolutionary guard and you and I are allowed to demand better.

    Demand better from him than providing free gender affirming care and legalizing gay marriage, affirming other alt family structures, proactively having a country do pro-lgbt education to root out cultural bigotry like in Cuba? I'm am somewhat confused by this statement? What does demanding better here look like?

  • There can be no allyship with someone who understands our experience purely through the lens of political opportunism.

    Do you think all pro-lgbt measures done in socialist states to be about political opportunism? Because in Cuba it took a multi-decade effort while struggling against the influence of the catholic church and colonial-legacy machismo culture to expand lgbt rights to the point that they're better than the US

  • I'm saying his heart is in the right place but he has wrong-headed ideas. Given the guy follows a socialist intellectual tradition it is reasonable that you suggest he gets his head in the right place by understanding socialist social practice on the issue.

  • Honestly this is a really uncharitable reading of what I'm saying.

    If someone ostensibly left-wing or socialist needs to read theory in order value my life and needs as a proletarian ally then they can necessarily be no ally of mine. More work needs to be done beyond tacit academic acceptance.

    Except here it seems the guy does oppose transphobia generally but needs specific work done to advance his understanding of the issue.

    And understanding social practice in other places to improve your own social practice isn't academic. It is not an ivory-tower-ass thing.

    What other minority has to be vetted for their use before being welcomed into your so-called revolutionary project?

    Socialist projects are doing better on lgbt issues because they are recognizing the old bigotry against lgbt people for what it is.

    LGBT people aren't being used, except in the sense that discarding liberal bigotries in general helps make the system more robust.

    I'm literally a trans person btw, I am approaching this from an angle of actually helping people remove their own bigotries. What is your solution here? What should dessalines do to get better on trans issues, concretely? If you're having a hard time articulating your criticism, I would suggest the constructive criticism handbook.

  • Yeah, it seems like he still has some political development on this front to do to chase out some liberal brainstorms.

    I think the guy's heart is in the right place though, I think he just hasn't done the legwork yet on studying how modern socialist states are moving on lgbt issues and why they're doing so.

  • It is pretty obvious that the dynamics of how groups work and how you get people to believe in certain goals are pretty universal.

    Why do you believe this? Because I've studied how fascists currently recruit and the methods are very different from how socialist orgs recruit. I have also studied how fascism developed in nazi Germany, Spain, and Italy, and they seem incredibly different from socialist forms of movement building.

    Populism is designed to abuse how everyone perceives and judges outside information for political gain.

    How can you have left wing populism then?

    I honestly think you’re just throwing around buzzwords, how is all of this this directly related to fascism?

    Populism is a strain of buzzword designed to equate two very different ideologies. Obviously you can't try to minimize fascism directly so since the holocaust fascists have been trying to downplay fascism by making it a symmetrical evil with communism. If you want to learn more I would suggest looking through some of Dovid Katz's writings on holocaust collaboration in Eastern Europe.

    And if you can’t be friendly to people with different opinions, your opinions are only a result of one-sided socialisation, not of discussion and reflection with the help of others.

    I didn't say we weren't friendly to people, I said we aren't friendly to certain ideas.

    And being unfriendly to mainstream ambient opinions that we have decided to reject isn't an indication of one sided socialization. While you might not be socialized to understand socialist ideas, socialists in the west grew up around and are intimately familiar with liberal ideas.

    not of discussion and reflection with the help of others. And therefore on the same level as any other unreflected opinion.

    Luckily though, socialists invest in the social practice of group learning and reflection, including engaging in ruthless criticism of our own ideas. So no, we have established that it is not at the same level.