she/her - hammer/sickle - state/revolution
Migrating to lemm.ee
Just wait until climate collapse hits and the food supply goes through cascading failures creating famines affecting 6 billion people. Then we'll see when shit really hits the fan.
The nordic countries aren't socialism ffs. They are social democracy, capitalist states with welfare policies and a ruling class of bourgeoisie. This is political illiteracy. Adding welfare to capitalism does not make socialism, it makes ""friendly"" capitalism (backed by imperialism of the global south). Read Imperialism in the 21st Century, it is suicide fuel for socdems.
A real example of democratic socialism to discuss would be any of the states created by the Bolivarian revolutions. Venezuela under Chavez. Bolivia under MAS. Etc. Socialist states with a proletarian ruling class.
I live in Russia and you do not.
Which area of Russia do you live in and what do the local people over 60 that actually lived in the USSR have to say? I already know of course and could post video interviews of such, but perhaps you could tell the thread what those people say.
Forgive me for assuming but I'm willing to bet you're in your teens or twenties, making you at best 10 years old when it ended, meaning you have little to no actual recollection of what living and working was like. I could be wrong of course.
Spiegel? Propaganda? It's literally the largest German news website mate. Trying to attack the authority of the source here is nonsense. And gallup is one of the most internationally recognised polling companies in the world largely for its refusal to do polls funded by any political party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel_(online) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallup,_Inc.
This is getting too semantic for my liking we would argue all day about whether Tito's efforts were a market economy or not. You acknowledge that market economies and multiple parties do exist in socialist countries though correct?
Of course nobody wants the same shit, I don't want the same shit either, I know for sure that the hard left of mszp sit around where I am. Things can be so much better.
And? Socialism does not mean not having a multiparty system. I get that you're trying to imply that approving of a multiparty system or a market economy is somehow evidence of being against socialism but both of those things exist under socialism. Yugoslavia was a market economy in eastern europe under socialism.
I'm sorry do you have any other way for scientists to measure opinion?
According to the absolute majority of respondents (54%), the majority of Hungarians had a better life under the Kádár regime (pre-1990) than today
The Kádár regime was the communist government.
there were even more respondents (61%) who said that the conditions for individual financial prosperity were more favorable under the Kádár regime.
lol
It is also worth noting that almost two-thirds of Hungarians (63%) said that there was predictable order and social peace under the Kádár regime
lmao
I like this research. Thanks for sharing.
EDIT:
The older an age group, the higher the proportion was of those who agreed that the majority lived better before the regime change. A significant correlation can be observed when looking at the educational background: citizens with lower education tend to believe that most Hungarians lived better under Kádár. Among the lowest qualified citizens, 62 and 27 percent are the share of the two sides, but even according to the relative majority of graduates (45%), most Hungarians lived better before 1990 than today.
So the older the Hungarian the more likely they are to believe that things were better under communism. So the people that actually lived in communism support it even more. Oh and the more educated people are the more likely they are to support that position too. I think the age thing will explain why the stat is slipping over time, the people that actually lived in communism are the people that support it more, and as they are dying they are being removed from the data.
These polls are really out of date. These numbers have since improved substantially in capitalism’s favour.
Feel free to give citations that are better than 2010-2016 lmao.
Implying capitalism does not regularly do mass killings.
7 out of 11 countries believe the end of the USSR harmed their countries rather than benefited them
Reflecting back on the breakup of the Soviet Union that happened 22 years ago next week, residents in seven out of 11 countries that were part of the union are more likely to believe its collapse harmed their countries than benefited them. Only Azerbaijanis, Kazakhstanis, and Turkmens are more likely to see benefit than harm from the breakup. Georgians are divided.
Hungary: 72% of Hungarians say they are worse off today economically than under communism
A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country's economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country's switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary's integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.
Romania: 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism
The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.
Germany: more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR
Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an "illegitimate state." In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.
28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime
Roughly 28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime, according to a poll conducted by the polling institute SC&C and released Sunday.
81% of Serbians believe they lived best in Yugoslavia
A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -”during the time of socialism”.
The majority of Russians polled in a 2016 study said they would prefer living under the old Soviet Union and would like to see the socialist system and the Soviet state restored.
The above memes are almost always made by Americans, whose brains are riddled with red scare brainworms and are completely devoid of any knowledge or understand of what the left thinks in Europe because Americans do not have a left.
Me and my whole family is from and currently in Eastern Europe you numbskull.
Then you should know from talking to literally any elders that you're talking shit.
Karelia
Lmao so you're a Finn that's proud of having fought on the nazi side of ww2 then and are unhappy with the soviets over it. Cool.
Considering the USSR did some considerable ethnic cleansing with their death camps in siberia
This is absolute nonsense. You are a historical revisionist who invents reality to suit themselves. 90% of people who entered soviet work camps left them alive perfectly well, calling them death camps is absolutely absurd. Frankly I'm not going to bother responding to you any further because this just continues to give you opportunities to spew literal actual bollocks into the thread.
I want you to ask some of the jews that were liberated from death camps whether they think socialism was "not much better than fascism".
You're calling people like Jeremy Corbyn a monster, who regularly defends the ussr, correctly so. That's how far off the deep end you people are in terms of understanding of this topic.
Thankfully Eastern Europe, having lived through the horrors of Stalin’s regime, are better at seeing through that bullshit.
I am originally FROM eastern europe(Czech) and this is just false. You are talking to people born in the 80s and 90s, brought up on an education system designed with a hefty quantity of anticommunism. You are not talking to people that actually lived under socialism at an age where they can remember any of it.
We have data to back this up anyway:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/
A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country's economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country's switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary's integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.
The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.
Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an "illegitimate state." In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.
http://praguemonitor.com/2011/11/21/pol
Roughly 28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime, according to a poll conducted by the polling institute SC&C and released Sunday.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country
A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -”during the time of socialism”.
The majority of Russians polled in a 2016 study said they would prefer living under the old Soviet Union and would like to see the socialist system and the Soviet state restored.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx
Reflecting back on the breakup of the Soviet Union that happened 22 years ago next week, residents in seven out of 11 countries that were part of the union are more likely to believe its collapse harmed their countries than benefited them. Only Azerbaijanis, Kazakhstanis, and Turkmens are more likely to see benefit than harm from the breakup. Georgians are divided.
You are objectively and measurably wrong. You are repeating repetitive garbage that you have seen moronic far right americans on reddit who have their brains riddled with the legacy of two red-scares repeat over and over again. Which you too repeat as fact despite it being simply not true.
But of course you'll completely ignore all of this absolutely factual information and still repeat garbage again next time because you people don't care about reality, you invent your own. When information that should make you self-crit and reevaluate your world view is presented to you the reactionary attitude you hold causes you to discard it.
Does Macron even count as a liberal? He outright said the French revolution was a mistake and a monarchie would have been better. That along with trying to do some police state shit makes it seem he’s just an authoritarian.
Modern liberals all believe that. Liberals gave up the social and economic justice beliefs of the Enlightenment as soon as they attained power post-revolution, socialists inherited the Enlightenment thought and became the new left opposition pushing for real justice.
Like american politicians in general come off to me as the most insincere people in the whole world.
To be fair this isn't limited to america. Liberals in europe are equally as detestable and insincere. Macron being the premiere example. I think it's just highly noticeable in american politics because they have no left.
What? No that's not it. They highlight this because when liberals all respond saying they don't care about this they help reinforce to republicans that they shouldn't care about Trump's prostitution stuff or "grab em by the pussy". It makes liberals look like people doing a performance who don't actually hold those things as principles because they're entirely willing to toss them aside for certain issues.
I don't have a dog in this race because I'm not american.
Ahh yes we can just wait for the rich to willingly reduce their profits. I'm sure that will come before the heat death of the planet.
In this thread: Shit loads of people who will say they care about the climate crisis on one day, then say they don't care about the 18.5% of global carbon emissions that the meat industry causes the next day because they can't get over the decade worth of anti-veganism jokes and memes that they've constantly repeated uncritically.
Individual habits MUST be changed to solve this part of the problem, there is literally no way around that. Getting triggered and writing screeds because you've spent decades getting caught up in hate over food choices won't stop the planet burning.
In Moscow? You're not being fair. Educated people in the soviet union from Moscow lived extremely well and have very positive views. Engineers, scientists, etc will all say positive things. You know as well as I do that hundreds of video interviews will confirm this. Be fairer, claiming that everyone that supports the ussr among the over 60s is just uneducated is definitely untrue. This particular video series is in Moscow and this lady is exactly what I am talking about.
You can't live in Moscow and say this is untrue. You're being unfair.
Brought up in shock therapy then.
I'm not in denial. I'm asking you to be fairer. The data does not support your position. You know as well as I do that 75% of the country consider the soviet era to be when the country was at its greatest (and that this is easily verifiable from many sources), and you know damn well that 75% of the country aren't all uneducated people. You are not being fair.