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hotspur

@ Hotspur @lemmy.ml

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173
Joined
3 yr. ago

  • Chinese AI lab DeepSeek massively undercuts OpenAI on pricing — and that's spooking tech stocks

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  • I’m gonna take a second stab at replying, because you seem to be arguing in good faith.

    My original point is that online chatbots have arbitrary curbs that are built in. I can run GPT 2.5 on my self host machine, and if I knew how to do it (I don’t) I could probably get it to have no curbs via retraining and clever prompting. The same is true of the deepseek models.

    I don’t personally agree that there’s a huge difference between one model being curbed from discussing xi and another from discussing what the current politics du jour in the western sphere are. When you see platforms like meta censoring LGTBTQ topics but amplifying hate speech, or official congressional definitions of antisemitism including objection to active and on-going genocide, the idea of what government censorship is and isn’t becomes confusing.

    Having personally received the bizarre internal agency emails circulating this week encouraging me to snitch out my colleagues to help root out the evils of DEIA thought in US gov’t the last week has only crystallized it for me. I’m not sure I care that much about Chinese censorship or authoritarianism; I’ve got budget authoritarianism at home, and I don’t even get high-speed rail out of the bargain. At least they don’t depend on forever wars and all of the attendant death and destruction that come with them to prop up their ponzi-scheme economies. Will they in the future, probably? They are basically just a heavily centralized/regulated capitalist enterprise now, so who knows. But right now? Do they engage in propaganda? Cyber-espionage? Yes and Yes. So do we, so do you, so does everyone who has a seat at the geopolitical table and the economy to afford it.

    The point of all of this isn’t US GOOD CHINA BAD or US BAD CHINA GOOD. The article is about the deepseek models tearing out the floor of US dominance in AI. Personally, having deployed it and played with it, yeah. None of these products are truly useful to me yet, and I remain skeptical of their eventual value, but right now, party censorship or not, you can download a version of an LLM that you can run, retrain and bias however you want, and it costs you the bandwidth it took to download. And it performs on par with US commercial offerings that require pricey subscriptions. Offerings that apparently require huge public investment to keep afloat.

  • Chinese AI lab DeepSeek massively undercuts OpenAI on pricing — and that's spooking tech stocks

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  • Wow what even is beehaw, I had no idea. At least China is honest about what they’re doing. The amount of bad faith in these replies is insane.

    If you’re a shill, fine, good job. But if you’re not, have you paid any attention to the real world around you? We spent the last year enabling genocide, and the best fruits of our over-hyped tech and intellectual innovation factories are being revealed as the bullshit that most people always understood them to be.

    The fact that you can accuse me of being dishonest, while providing no basis or evidence, while multiple federal agencies are under a strict gag order from any communication or purchasing with outside contacts… I mean really?

    Like are you guys just another CIA adjacent cutout that believes in identity politics and SSRIs but has zero ability to critically assess the actual world around them?

  • Chinese AI lab DeepSeek massively undercuts OpenAI on pricing — and that's spooking tech stocks

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  • You say Chinese state censorship is an understood quantity. Could be. But I’d say that my points about equivalencies are to illustrate that what we think is true, is often much more grey. I’ve been to China, and while I was impressed and shocked at how much more advanced it was than I expected, I also couldn’t imaging living there. It doesn’t change the fact that a stagnant late-stage capital mafia state that lives off defense contracting is performing ooorly against a centrally controlled capitalist state that has set different priorities (that’s right boy, deepseek-r1 is a side project of a…. CHINESE HEDGE FUND). It’s value neutral. But if you dismiss reality based on a conception of political censorship that I doubt you’ve deeply engaged with, enjoy.

    The so called free market certainly didn’t seem to take much reassurance in deepseek being compromised by communist censorship this morning though. Probably because the deepseek news isn’t exceptional because of China, or what it is, but because of what it isn’t, compared to the bloated tech carcasses that the US has pinned its hopes on.

  • Chinese AI lab DeepSeek massively undercuts OpenAI on pricing — and that's spooking tech stocks

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  • If you’re going to accuse China of state censorship, then I suppose you are also vehemently opposed to the censorship we apply to our media, social media and “AI” platforms, and since you dislike the lack of journalistic integrity in this article for pointing out that state censorship you would support similar caveats being added to articles about OpenAI, Meta, X in regards to how they handle issues like Gaza, Culture War topics and coverage of political candidates?

    It’s fair to bring up comparisons when your critique is claiming an imbalance in portrayal between the “realities” of ai development in China and the US.

  • Chinese AI lab DeepSeek massively undercuts OpenAI on pricing — and that's spooking tech stocks

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  • There’s a strong argument that any consumer facing chatbot AI is “censored”. I’ve had chatGPT clam up in bizarre ways after it misinterprets what I’m asking. It just depends on company owning the product and what they view their legal exposure to be.

    Also, we are applying huge govt subsidies to ai industry based on thin value evidence at this very moment. And we provide subsidies for many of our industries to help prop them up, sometimes to hugely bad effect. It’s what countries do to build, maintain and win industrial arms races.

    Deepseek-R1 is open source and you can download it and run it offline. I’m not a power user but was able to get a functioning offline version of the 32B distill model running on a spare machine I had in a hour or so from scratch. I used online deepseek for most of the process to provide instructions and troubleshoot. I can’t comment on how amazing it is, other than to say so far it’s felt about as good as my interactions with GPT4 on the free chatGPT tier. In both cases I remain skeptical about their deep business use outside of certain areas.

    From what I’ve read, you can use the base, and methodology and train your own new model if you have the technical ability and desire (rumor is meta AI has shelved their WIP and adopted deepseek as their new basis). This would imply that if you wanted to be able to talk to your LLM about topics like Taiwan, you could absolutely set up a model that would do that.

  • Chinese AI startup DeepSeek overtakes ChatGPT on Apple App Store

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  • How long before deepseek is banned by US gov for being too good—-wait sorry I mean a security risk?

  • Incoming Trump team is questioning civil servants at National Security Council about their loyalty

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  • The people they’re discussing are on a detail loan from another agency, so they’re just going back to their original posts with their parent agencies. Whole thing is still shitty and stupid, but there’s been clear messaging that they’re going to rotate all of them regardless, so probably not worth resisting, you just go back to your original job.

  • Trump’s invasion of Greenland would be ‘the shortest war in the world’

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  • Yeah I basically agree with your point about the unpleasant logic behind such a move, and would only add that Greenland looks appealing if you’re trying to lock down the arctic from both sides of the continent—US has good arctic frontage on Alaska, and Greenland would bookend Canada and allow US more flexibility in countering Russia and expanding oil extraction.

    I was trying to think about where this suddenly came from, and the first thing that kept popping up was Trumps current obsession with drill baby drill, the arctic is the last frontier for potentially easy extraction once all the ice melts and Canada, US and Russia have already been playing footsie there for a decade under the guise of science and commercial traffic trying to lay claim to stuff that was ignorable before.

    Like some dude got in his ear and convinced him the future is in the arctic. It also adds some further explanation to Trump “joking” about making Canada a state. If it was just economic hardball / a new trade deal, they could leave it at tariffs and the like, but they keep saying they want to make it a state…

    All of that makes me sick to my stomach, but as you say there is logic to it.

  • Man who exploded Tesla Cybertruck outside Trump hotel in Las Vegas used generative AI, police say

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  • Yeah that’s a fair point—like it’s fine as a brainstorming tool, but I’d never trust… uhh life and death details to it. And as OP mentioned, you can easily answer many of the questions with a web search.

  • Man who exploded Tesla Cybertruck outside Trump hotel in Las Vegas used generative AI, police say

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  • It’s so amusing, I’m not a demolitions expert (tbh I would have thought an SF guy would have had better knowledge there, or at least better sources to go to) but the idea of trusting anything chatGPT said to help you lay out a plan like that… seems ludicrous.

  • ‘Forever Chemicals’ Reach Tap Water via Treated Sewage, Study Finds

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  • Not sure, but one thing I do know: sewage treatment plants aren’t distilling the water before it it gets back into service. Guessing that would be very energy intensive at scale.

  • There was a time when everyone had common sense

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  • Right, or that back then they just didn’t care if you drank the battery because there wasn’t a hugely well-developed culture of lawsuits like we have now. Those fuckers in 1914-1950 were definitely down for a battery party, no doubt. The ones that made it now think that everyone had common sense because only the ones that did made it through.

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  • Also very cool—the building in default modifiers to the command. Thanks for the great tips.

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  • Wild had no idea—this is so cool. If you do this, does the original command also still function (so like I could rename to something easier for me, but hopefully transition to the real deal at some point/ properly follow help forums or suggested pasted commands)

  • Could mouse sperm orbiting Earth be the future of humanity?

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  • Tbh this is the future we deserve.

  • Putin’s Pals Say Tucker Carlson Is Acting as a Secret Back-Channel to Trump

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  • Well but who decides that they’re our adversary, if not things like the president and the state department and other elements of the executive? Congress could put up a stink, but they certainly haven’t yet and they’re even more tilted in trumps favor right now. The president also commands the military, so Trump could literally just say, we’re friends with Russia now and we are turning our back on NATO and Ukraine and that would now be the paradigm. Kinda fucks my brain over but honestly who’s a friend and who’s an enemy is something very fluid and can simply change…

  • Florida woman who led a nearly $200 million Ponzi scheme sentenced to 20 years in prison

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  • Bahaha ok, thanks. So @xmunk beat me to it and things are so whacky that I just assumed, yeah ok I guess it’s real! Probably should have read the article ;). But hey there’s still time for Trump to tap her, it still might happen.

  • Florida woman who led a nearly $200 million Ponzi scheme sentenced to 20 years in prison

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  • Woah, I was going to say that instead of prison, Trump should snap her up since she’d fit right in with the rest of the picks, but clearly reality already got there first and it’s not a joke.

  • Trump Plans Tariffs on Canada, China and Mexico That Could Cripple Trade

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  • Yeah I mean there are sooo many products that this would affect, but for instance this is kinda like applying a 10-25% cost increase to residential construction, including multi-family structures. So much of the lumber used in the construction industry comes from Canada. We have our own production in the US, but this will drive the price up across the board whether it’s foreign or domestic source, I don’t think we have enough production to meet demand.

    Add in some forest fires that we are definitely going to see going forward, and it could be pretty rough on housing pricing.

    I feel like we’ve had tariffs on Canadian lumber in the past and they took us to the WTO over it.