No that’s kinda dumb. A digital copy of the book can serve so many people compared to one physical copy of the book.
You have issues with how datacenters are used to exclusively serve capital interests.
No that’s kinda dumb. Libraries do so much more for communities than house physical books, and at the same time those important historical paper records and books need to be stored somewhere public and accessible. Digital records can be altered. Digital books can be altered. Physical is crucial.
Libraries do so much that it’s difficult to express without leaving something out. As Shin said, they provide a “third place,” which is worth reading about if you’re unfamiliar with the concept. Briefly, humans psychologically need places to gather outside of home and work or school. Libraries are one of the few places left in society where a person can simply exist without being charged for the privilege. That alone is incredibly important.
Third places are essential for building real communities, and they cannot simply be replaced by billionaire-owned social media platforms. A real-life bulletin board or community events calendar does not have algorithms, sponsors, or an agenda to push. Libraries give people a physical space to connect with their neighbors and communities directly.
They also offer free classes on everything from filing taxes to gardening, crafts, and technology. They host community groups, events, nonprofits, support groups, makerspaces, and even tool or small appliance lending programs. They allow people to expand their horizons, try new things in a risk-free environment, meet others with shared interests, or simply receive support from their community.
Libraries also provide employment assistance, including resume building, printing services, computer access, and help navigating online applications. They regularly assist older adults trying to navigate phones, government forms, and increasingly hostile dark-pattern-filled websites. On top of that, they provide free internet access to people who either cannot afford reliable internet or do not have quality service at home. The internet, like knowledge itself, is an invaluable resource, and libraries help ensure equal access to both regardless of income.
They are also one of the few places where a person can privately seek information they may be too embarrassed to ask about openly or search for from a personally identifiable device. That privacy matters.
Libraries preserve local archives, history, and community knowledge as well. Keeping those archives public and physically accessible matters because physical records cannot be quietly altered or erased as easily as digital information can.
They are also among the few remaining safe and quiet public spaces for children. Libraries encourage literacy from an early age and provide access to books, ebooks, audiobooks, movies, music, and research databases that would otherwise cost individuals hundreds or thousands of dollars. They give curious people of any age the ability to learn, explore, and broaden their horizons. And despite what some people assume, not all knowledge exists online.
Even looking strictly at economics, libraries save communities money constantly. Instead of every individual person needing to buy every book, tool, printer, subscription, or educational resource themselves, the costs are shared publicly and everyone benefits. The money invested into libraries returns to communities many times over through education, employment assistance, literacy, civic participation, and even public health outcomes.
But beyond all measurable benefits, libraries make communities feel human. They are one of the last institutions built around the idea that access to knowledge should not depend on income. They create places where curiosity, learning, creativity, and simply existing peacefully are treated as worthwhile on their own.
Axing libraries to save a few pennies is not fiscal responsibility. It is a death knell for the community itself.
I didn’t say I was against libraries. I just said physical media is subpar compared to digital media. I can give all my friends a digital copy of a book, while still having a copy of it, physical can’t beat that.
And yes libraries are great, not what I’m debating.
And so can physical books be changed, heard of editions and reprints? A physical book is only as good as what’s kept in circulation
Anyone can read a physical book. Digital books are gatekept behind devices.
Edit: I honestly can’t believe the replies I’m getting. Who knew people oppose physical books that have existed for hundreds of years? This is depressing.
You know what is usually included in most public libraries and allowed to be publicly used usually free if charge? (it can vary from library to library)
Computers. The kind that can be used to access a vast digital library
Because the library might not have a specific book you’re looking for. Or the library might burn down and having non centralized rudimentary backups and archives of data, such as books, means that we can re-print and replace physical media that was damaged.
You can burn a book but if it’s digitally backed up and free to access, the content within the book is unburnable.
No. Some people were never taught to read. Books that aren’t in braille are gatekept from blind people. As well as giving you access to more content, digital devices can overcome these limitations.
A book is also a device, just less complex. The proliferation of digital devices is widespread and resilient enough that needing one to access a book isn’t gatekeeping in itself. Especially since you don’t need a digital device to access a book, digital books aren’t stopping you from having physical ones.
But it is a convenient, versatile and affordable way to gain access to more books than any traditional library could hold.
No it’s not. By no stretch of imagination is a book a device. Physical books don’t require any extra purchases, and the information in them is inherent.
just go to the place that has book. Find book. read book. simple. A book isn’t a device. If i want to read something digitally, i need to have a device that is good to read.
Sure why not, just as long as you live next door to a vast library and it isn’t raining today, that could be a viable option. Or just keep a huge personal library in your own home. or…
If i want to read something digitally, i need to have a device that is good to read.
Not everyone lives in the suburbs or the US or both.
raining today
Umbrella, raincoat, your own vehicle, Uber
keep a huge personal library in your own home
I wish I had a 1000 sq ft space just to keep books.
ah… there ya go
But I need to have an e-ink device for this. Reading on LED Screens is not that great for eyes. E-readers have their place when you are traveling or something but not when you’re sitting at home. If you like them as your primary then great for you.
Nobody is saying digital libraries shouldn’t exist. They should co-exist. And most of the times it is not going to be the primary reading medium for the majority. Open P&L of any publisher and you will see (if they categorize) physical books still account to over 80-90% of their revenues. Physical libraries are the most affordable and recognizable way to access literature and knowledge.
Let’s be clear, I’m not going to argue against the worth of physical books. I love books, use my local library a lot, and don’t own an e-reader. I’m only disputing the assertion that the need for reading devices means digital books are gatekept. e-readers and the like are widespread, reasonably affordable, and likely to become more so. Digital books are also accessible by other (not so ideal for reading) devices, which are even more ubiquitous.
It’s like saying that physical books are gatekept by the need for a reading light.
Gatekeeping implies some exclusive access which is not generally available. Book knowledge was gatekept before the existence of public libraries, even more so before the printing press. Even now the accessiblility of physical books and libraries depends a lot on where you live. Digital information, by contrast, has become broadly available extremely quickly and will remain so.
Good thing many libraries nowadays have both. Also libraries offer much more than just books. My local library offers cool classes/programs for kids in the summer.
I always end up not buying one because of the price and/or the size, if it’s mobile phone size, it feels just very very small (even a big phone like ~7").
No that’s kinda dumb. A digital copy of the book can serve so many people compared to one physical copy of the book. You have issues with how datacenters are used to exclusively serve capital interests.
No that’s kinda dumb. Libraries do so much more for communities than house physical books, and at the same time those important historical paper records and books need to be stored somewhere public and accessible. Digital records can be altered. Digital books can be altered. Physical is crucial.
Can you give examples? (Just curious, I haven’t been to one in ages)
Libraries do so much that it’s difficult to express without leaving something out. As Shin said, they provide a “third place,” which is worth reading about if you’re unfamiliar with the concept. Briefly, humans psychologically need places to gather outside of home and work or school. Libraries are one of the few places left in society where a person can simply exist without being charged for the privilege. That alone is incredibly important.
Third places are essential for building real communities, and they cannot simply be replaced by billionaire-owned social media platforms. A real-life bulletin board or community events calendar does not have algorithms, sponsors, or an agenda to push. Libraries give people a physical space to connect with their neighbors and communities directly.
They also offer free classes on everything from filing taxes to gardening, crafts, and technology. They host community groups, events, nonprofits, support groups, makerspaces, and even tool or small appliance lending programs. They allow people to expand their horizons, try new things in a risk-free environment, meet others with shared interests, or simply receive support from their community.
Libraries also provide employment assistance, including resume building, printing services, computer access, and help navigating online applications. They regularly assist older adults trying to navigate phones, government forms, and increasingly hostile dark-pattern-filled websites. On top of that, they provide free internet access to people who either cannot afford reliable internet or do not have quality service at home. The internet, like knowledge itself, is an invaluable resource, and libraries help ensure equal access to both regardless of income.
They are also one of the few places where a person can privately seek information they may be too embarrassed to ask about openly or search for from a personally identifiable device. That privacy matters.
Libraries preserve local archives, history, and community knowledge as well. Keeping those archives public and physically accessible matters because physical records cannot be quietly altered or erased as easily as digital information can.
They are also among the few remaining safe and quiet public spaces for children. Libraries encourage literacy from an early age and provide access to books, ebooks, audiobooks, movies, music, and research databases that would otherwise cost individuals hundreds or thousands of dollars. They give curious people of any age the ability to learn, explore, and broaden their horizons. And despite what some people assume, not all knowledge exists online.
Even looking strictly at economics, libraries save communities money constantly. Instead of every individual person needing to buy every book, tool, printer, subscription, or educational resource themselves, the costs are shared publicly and everyone benefits. The money invested into libraries returns to communities many times over through education, employment assistance, literacy, civic participation, and even public health outcomes.
But beyond all measurable benefits, libraries make communities feel human. They are one of the last institutions built around the idea that access to knowledge should not depend on income. They create places where curiosity, learning, creativity, and simply existing peacefully are treated as worthwhile on their own.
Axing libraries to save a few pennies is not fiscal responsibility. It is a death knell for the community itself.
I agree with libraries, tho not what I’m talking about.
Thanks for the explanation! 🙂
Read about “the third place”
for one thing, they often host social groups, often around reading, but not only.
I didn’t say I was against libraries. I just said physical media is subpar compared to digital media. I can give all my friends a digital copy of a book, while still having a copy of it, physical can’t beat that.
And yes libraries are great, not what I’m debating.
And so can physical books be changed, heard of editions and reprints? A physical book is only as good as what’s kept in circulation
Why not have both?
Just cause I said I like hotdogs doesn’t mean I don’t like hamburgers
deleted by creator
Anyone can read a physical book. Digital books are gatekept behind devices.
Edit: I honestly can’t believe the replies I’m getting. Who knew people oppose physical books that have existed for hundreds of years? This is depressing.
You know what is usually included in most public libraries and allowed to be publicly used usually free if charge? (it can vary from library to library)
Computers. The kind that can be used to access a vast digital library
Because the library might not have a specific book you’re looking for. Or the library might burn down and having non centralized rudimentary backups and archives of data, such as books, means that we can re-print and replace physical media that was damaged.
You can burn a book but if it’s digitally backed up and free to access, the content within the book is unburnable.
Do you even pdf bro? Or epub? You know kindle but there’s a whole new world for you out there
Go ahead, read a pdf without a screen.
Go ahead, read a book without access to the physical book. Also where do you not have a screen in today’s day and age? How are you conversing with me?
No. Some people were never taught to read. Books that aren’t in braille are gatekept from blind people. As well as giving you access to more content, digital devices can overcome these limitations.
Ebooks are by that logic also inaccessible to the visually impaired without further software. What is this shit comparison? You can’t be serious.
A book is also a device, just less complex. The proliferation of digital devices is widespread and resilient enough that needing one to access a book isn’t gatekeeping in itself. Especially since you don’t need a digital device to access a book, digital books aren’t stopping you from having physical ones. But it is a convenient, versatile and affordable way to gain access to more books than any traditional library could hold.
No it’s not. By no stretch of imagination is a book a device. Physical books don’t require any extra purchases, and the information in them is inherent.
device noun de·vice di-ˈvīs
1 : something devised or contrived: such as
a(1) : a piece of equipment or a mechanism designed to serve a special purpose or perform a special function …
Are you honestly arguing that a book is a device like for instance a computer is? Or a mechanical lock is?
No it’s a device like a book is. It’s an invention people made to store text etc in a robust easily accessible form.
just go to the place that has book. Find book. read book. simple. A book isn’t a device. If i want to read something digitally, i need to have a device that is good to read.
Sure why not, just as long as you live next door to a vast library and it isn’t raining today, that could be a viable option. Or just keep a huge personal library in your own home. or…
ah… there ya go
Not everyone lives in the suburbs or the US or both.
Umbrella, raincoat, your own vehicle, Uber
I wish I had a 1000 sq ft space just to keep books.
But I need to have an e-ink device for this. Reading on LED Screens is not that great for eyes. E-readers have their place when you are traveling or something but not when you’re sitting at home. If you like them as your primary then great for you.
Nobody is saying digital libraries shouldn’t exist. They should co-exist. And most of the times it is not going to be the primary reading medium for the majority. Open P&L of any publisher and you will see (if they categorize) physical books still account to over 80-90% of their revenues. Physical libraries are the most affordable and recognizable way to access literature and knowledge.
Let’s be clear, I’m not going to argue against the worth of physical books. I love books, use my local library a lot, and don’t own an e-reader. I’m only disputing the assertion that the need for reading devices means digital books are gatekept. e-readers and the like are widespread, reasonably affordable, and likely to become more so. Digital books are also accessible by other (not so ideal for reading) devices, which are even more ubiquitous.
It’s like saying that physical books are gatekept by the need for a reading light.
Gatekeeping implies some exclusive access which is not generally available. Book knowledge was gatekept before the existence of public libraries, even more so before the printing press. Even now the accessiblility of physical books and libraries depends a lot on where you live. Digital information, by contrast, has become broadly available extremely quickly and will remain so.
Digital libraries are still libraries
Good thing many libraries nowadays have both. Also libraries offer much more than just books. My local library offers cool classes/programs for kids in the summer.
The only good data centers are not-for-profit ones.
What do you think I meant by relationship to capital?
Any cheap ereader suggestions?
I always end up not buying one because of the price and/or the size, if it’s mobile phone size, it feels just very very small (even a big phone like ~7").