can’t help but laugh that these were the same people making fun of Arabs for being “misogynistic”
Colonizers always project
Good thing I’m 21
I think this may be a little overblown. “Gurus” offering the magic solution to teenage boys/young adults to get girls to notice them have been around for decades. A lot of these kids will grow out of it once they realise it doesn’t actually work, and the “trick” is to just be understanding and empathetic.
That being said, I’ve got a friend in their early 20s and her dating experiences do seem to reflect this sort of thing, seems like at least 60% of guys on dating apps fall for this bullshit. Though it could be survivorship bias, they are gross creeps, so they don’t get a girlfriend and thus remain on the app much longer than the guys who aren’t total creeps.
Honestly I feel like I’m taking crazy pills whenever people online talk about this, I barely see any tate influence in the young men I know. The older folks seem wildly misogynistic, in comparison.
And these aren’t even just people from like orgs, I volunteer at high schools and professional associations with student wings (in a generally conservative industry) where I meet plenty of young people.
I would like to see any empirical evidence to suggest what percent actually like him/other misogynistic icons. It is definitely far too many but I imagine the media might just be trying to get clicks and shares by saying that everyone is.
In the Netherlands the public broadcaster polled young men and found that one in four “agreed (partially) with Andrew Tate” and that in that group half of them agreed with his statement that women are lazy compared to men.
If you look at support for the far-right, it’s usually much higher among young men than among young women, except in France where the RN scores high among both. On average the far-right is supported by a third of young men, going by an EU poll from 2024: https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-young-people-right-wing-voters-far-right-politics-eu-elections-parliament/
The most damning study is this one, where 60% of Gen Z men believe the US has become “too soft and feminine”: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/aug/07/gen-z-voters-political-ideology-gender-gap
However, it says that this doesn’t make them exceptionally conservative, it only looks like it because young women are turning left at a high rate, creating a large political gap between the genders:
Gen Z men, Deckman noted, have “reverted to the mean of men”: while they’re not necessarily more conservative that most men, they are more conservative than their millennial counterparts.
Note: the graph only considers “liberals” and “conservatives”
Interesting, I do wonder how much this is influenced by willingness to fill out a poll on the subject, as I imagine that many would not unless they already had some position taken on the matter. Definitely a problem one way or another though
I’m getting a little uncomfortable with the whole “all gen Z men are fascists” rhetoric lately. I don’t think that’s true. way too many of them are for sure, but there’s plenty of leftists or at least radlibs too. a lot of Gen Z men at those campus protests for Palestine. from what I can tell Gen Z has been radicalized in all sorts of different directions, but the media only wants to talk about the ones who have been radicalized to the right… for some reason
and let’s not act like older men are any better. millennials and Gen X created the manosphere and a lot of them are consuming it too
Band-wagon appeal. They want to make the far-right even more popular by making many young men think that everyone else in their group is as well.
Psyop article I don’t believe men from older generations are any better and especially not the ones going after 19 year old women
Using the xkcd creepiness rule, it’s creepy if he’s over 24. If she’s 19 and he’s 22, that seems fine to me.
If we take this graph at face value (it’s boxed in by the US party duopoly and the nost extreme young men probably weren’t interested in a poll about their beliefs) it amounts to a political divergence between the genders and young men being relatively more conservative:
Gen Z men, Deckman noted, have “reverted to the mean of men”: while they’re not necessarily more conservative that most men, they are more conservative than their millennial counterparts.
Thx for the info. Adding that a man identifying with left/lib politics doesn’t guarantee him to not be a misogynist, but a young woman may not yet recognize that.
Minor downside of transitioning is I will no longer get to mog guys by having an iota of emotional intelligence. I’ll just be “normal” or more likely deficient
Dating pre transition was definitely pretty easy because of how low the bar was for men but holy shit cishet dating dynamics and norms is so insanely stupid it makes me more than happy to deal with the much higher bar nowadays for wlw and lesbians
I wonder if these guys ever realize, I’m voicing someone else’s opinions and not even getting a crumb of pussy.
Need some sort deprogramming for these dudebros along the lines of: Defending another man’s ideas on a date? Letting ideology ruin a good chance with a girl. Gay as fuck bro. (Jk)
Funny part is… You doing all this not only for someone that doesn’t know you exist, but said on social media that having sex with a woman to feel good is gay and probably thinks a woman’s orgasm is a myth. I don’t even go that hard for my team and you out here ruining ya dates over this no chin having ass goof?
My favourite shot at Andrew Taint; he was mildly successful in kickboxing not because he has a strong chin, but because he has a ninja chin, impossible to hit because you can’t find it.
He grew in his bread to hide the fact he literally doesn’t have a chin.
Females have no independent thought, by the way.
A feminist guy who is in his late twenties and dates a 19-year-old
He’s feminist because he still splits the bill 50/50.
A regular Joss Whedon
“Feminist” compared to Andrew Tate
power dynamics
he/him
this joke
Oh no oh shit oh fuck
I’ve worked really hard to make sure my 18 year old doesn’t fall into the manosphere/mra/conservative trap. It has taken a lot of actual active parenting, discussions and compassion. Knowing all his peers and their parents… I guess we’re screwed.
broke: MRA
woke: IRA
On flip side, I have a daughter and I’m trying to figure how I help navigate all this when she gets older.
Understanding dialectial materialism negates any such ridiculous concepts
I’m gen Z and my partner is a millennial guy #AgeGap #PowerDynamics
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(we were born in ‘98 and ‘95, respectively)
stuff like this really illustrates how fake generations are. you’re in a “different generation” with someone 3 years older, but in the “same generation” as someone 15 years younger, while your partner is in the “same generation” as someone 15 years older
it’s very interesting how the “power gap” arguers never use the same argument for other axes of power
like supposedly it’s a huge power gap if a 30 year old dates a 23 year old
but it’s not a power gap if a white guy dates a black girlmakes no sense whatsoever, literally nobody in the history of the world has been shot for being 23 years old
It comes up a lot in disability dating discourse. Like, who can someone who is developmentally delayed meaningfully date etc
Not that I necessarily agree with the age gap discourse (never participated), but isn’t it a different thing with age since it’s about maturation?
Also, I’ve definitely seen people at least talk about the power dynamics between rich americans dating people in lower income countries. That shit can go sideways fast especially if one individual had the power to decide the other’s visa status.
but isn’t it a different thing with age since it’s about maturation?
Okay but how is maturity is a source of power? (assuming you can even tell someone’s maturity level from age, which is itself a stereotype/very imperfect proxy)
for the record I think that men who exclusively look at young women are creepy but the discourse around it is the same quality as lib discourse on communism
I’ve definitely seen people at least talk about the power dynamics between rich americans dating people in lower income countries.
yea but at like 1% the rate of the age gap stuff
I mean, I ain’t gonna go too deep into it because I’m not a fan of age gap discourse myself. But I think a sufficiently large maturation could certainly a large power dynamic (ex - adult and child) because I guess maturation allows one to set boundaries more clearly, recognise when they are crossed and enforce them.
My hope is that nothing really changed for the worse, and it’s just that dating scenes are always dominated by men looking to score instead of get into a serious (and equitable) relationship.
Millennials had h3h3 and pewdiepie. I don’t think it meaningfully prevented those same viewers from a leftist turn if they were ever going to. Sometimes this shit just boils down to “kids can be dumb” and then they turn out fine after their prefrontal cortex finishes developing at 25.
The audience that took off for h3 (and that whole orbit) and pewdiepie* was definitely the older part of gen z, not millennials. There are zoomers that are as old as 28 (born in 1997).
*tbqh I don’t think pewdiepie deserves a mention here. Heated gamer moments aside, I really just don’t see him as a major political influence for the audiences that watched his stuff especially early on.
If older gen z were watching, then so were younger millennials… both of these creators were popular in the early 10s.
I don’t think pewdiepie deserves a mention
Fair, I don’t know that much about him except that he was the biggest YouTuber and had a few scandals for saying slurs.
Maybe I’m an optimist but I think it shouldn’t be that alarming that kids watch offensive things. They always have, forever. The millennials especially grew up in a new internet environment with minimal guardrails. Millennials saw a lot of gore and porn and edgy incel shit which was way easier to stumble upon than it is today, and with none of the warning labels. It probably felt cool to see that stuff, like flipping through grandpa’s playboy magazine, but that’s just angsty teenagers being angsty. I don’t see much cause for alarm in my personal experience with zoomers.
Lmao also somewhat explains how as a guy from that same time frame 90% of the friends I’ve made are lesbian. Like the you wanna hang out and drink a beer and talk about your shitty work? You don’t want some dude talking about whatever they saw on youtube, you want a salt of the earth lesbian who’s actually been through the ringer with you and you know you have each others backs
If you look at the top political streamers, the conservative and manosphere dominates podcasts and twitch streamers. Hasan seems to be the only one in a leftist direction that makes numbers anywhere near all the other guys. Maybe we need others who seem “cool” that appeal to a younger demographic? Idk.
I think the mainstream western platforms just have an innate disposition to promote right wing stuff. I find it hard to believe that imbeciles like Joe Rogan came out triumphant in the battle in the marketplace of ideas.
It’s by design - the fascist algorithm designed by fascists to create little fascists is working as intended
Its more like a brothel of ideas really. Shits in a bad way
He was the first comedian to have a podcast where he would just hang out and shoot the shit with other comedy guys or interesting people for a few hours and it grew from there. He triumphed because he was there first.
He actually wasn’t the first, Tom Green was and Rogan was even on his podcast when he stole the idea and decided to monetize it
I figured it would be either him or Marc Maron.
Yes pls
be normal
the articulated details are different, but the trend has generally been 5-15 years older guys with women in my lived experience since high school ended.
when I was in my 20s, my woman friends and colleagues my age were often in longer term relations with guys in their mid 30s. late 20s with 40s. and on and on.
I’ve never seriously dated someone that much younger. but as I’ve gotten older the pool of women expressing interest has gotten wider. which I attribute to appearing young for my age, but I’m sure there’s more to it.
in my early 20s, it was non existent. which, looking back, I get lol. ignorant, insecure, no plan, shit-not-together.
when will I be able to date with my shit-not-together
Not bagging on you, but men mature late. People also tend to learn from experience and relationships in high school tend to be mutual torment in a lot of ways. Boys/men, being on the winning end of that, snap out of it later because they don’t see the problem until a few heartbreaks.
I’ve heard that statement a lot, but absent the context of what “maturity” means, it doesn’t explain much about the social process of men’s prolonged immaturity
we can also trouble this idea by pointing out the devaluation of young men in extremely patriarchal, heteronormative communities, where they are treated as a nuisance to be discarded to reduce competition for younger women and older men pairings. whether exiled by religious leaders or driven to the remote man camps of the oil fields by political economy to “find their fortune” (re: permission and place among stabilized, complex community).
I think unless we are willing to dig deeper into what this society indoctrinates young men to believe about themselves and the expectations they internalize in that window of early adulthood, we won’t get far in liberating ourselves from its shackles or their generational regrowth.
this story has been going on a lot longer than Andrew Tate and the manosphere, the PUA grifters, etc. certainly it has metastasized, but the foundations were already old when my grandparents were young.
For sure. It’s a recipe that has been around for decades, but today’s “solution”—due to the internet—is more troubling in part because a lot of those old economic “opportunities” have dried up. The culture doesn’t even offer the old, shitty ways for men to “make it” anymore.
