Depends on you threshold but we have had it for a while
Getting to “choose” which pack of political racketeers gets to be the public face of capitalist looting and pillaging falls outside my threshold… which means that we’ve never had anything that can be called “democracy” with a straight face.
If we accept the liberals’ definition of democracy we might just as well accept the tankie’s definition of socialism, too - both are equally warped and vile.
If I were (as a thought exercise) to consider your metrics for democracy valid, I’d have to enquire as to what the point of democracy even is if it comes with fascism as a built-in feature - which, of course, is perfectly acceptable if we were to use your metrics.
And that’s before we even get into the nitty gritty of how your metrics of democracy solves the fundamentally violent and fundamentally irreconcilable incompatibility between democratic values and the capitalist mode of production.
Why are you mad at me? All I am saying is what we have right now is worse than what we had last year and I would like that back at the very least. I never said that what we had a year ago would solve all the problems or was the ideal government or the best form of democracy.
So we are just arguing over the definition of Democracy? I think we have to agree to disagree here. I don’t think I care enough to have a deep discussion with you about that.
You don’t care to find out if the thing you have been calling “democracy” your entire life even qualifies as democratic?
Fair enough, I guess - maybe the people calling themselves “democrats” not lifting a finger to stop fascism hasn’t convinced you to question the lies these very same people have been selling you since birth… but that could never be me.
Yeah, I definitely don’t care enough to discuss it with you. Have you read what you have posted? You sound like the least reasonable person to discuss this with. You aren’t even engaging with what I have posted, you are just activated by the fact that my definition isn’t exactly your definition. Go argue about nothing with someone who cares, I am not into this kink.
Getting to “choose” which pack of political racketeers gets to be the public face of capitalist looting and pillaging falls outside my threshold… which means that we’ve never had anything that can be called “democracy” with a straight face.
If we accept the liberals’ definition of democracy we might just as well accept the tankie’s definition of socialism, too - both are equally warped and vile.
Ok then, using your metrics we never had democracy. Using my metrics we had democracy, and I would prefer that to fascism.
But I also like stronger democracy. So if we can make improvements I’m all for it.
If I were (as a thought exercise) to consider your metrics for democracy valid, I’d have to enquire as to what the point of democracy even is if it comes with fascism as a built-in feature - which, of course, is perfectly acceptable if we were to use your metrics.
And that’s before we even get into the nitty gritty of how your metrics of democracy solves the fundamentally violent and fundamentally irreconcilable incompatibility between democratic values and the capitalist mode of production.
Why are you mad at me? All I am saying is what we have right now is worse than what we had last year and I would like that back at the very least. I never said that what we had a year ago would solve all the problems or was the ideal government or the best form of democracy.
Ummm… I’m not mad at you.
I’m trying to show you that you aren’t asking to get democracy back (because that’s something you never had).
What you are asking for is to have the “good cop” back - the very “good cop” that is right now busy handing you over to the bad one.
So we are just arguing over the definition of Democracy? I think we have to agree to disagree here. I don’t think I care enough to have a deep discussion with you about that.
You don’t care to find out if the thing you have been calling “democracy” your entire life even qualifies as democratic?
Fair enough, I guess - maybe the people calling themselves “democrats” not lifting a finger to stop fascism hasn’t convinced you to question the lies these very same people have been selling you since birth… but that could never be me.
Yeah, I definitely don’t care enough to discuss it with you. Have you read what you have posted? You sound like the least reasonable person to discuss this with. You aren’t even engaging with what I have posted, you are just activated by the fact that my definition isn’t exactly your definition. Go argue about nothing with someone who cares, I am not into this kink.
If all you want is to have the “good” cop to come back, and to be subject to the carrot instead of the stick - fine. You do you.
But is it too much to ask for you to simply be honest about it?