The 2024 US presidential election had been widely characterized as one of the most consequential political contests in recent US history. Although turnout was high for a presidential election – almost matching the levels of 2020 – it is estimated that close to 90 million Americans, roughly 36% of the eligible voting age population, did not vote. This number is greater than the number of people who voted for either Donald Trump or Kamala Harris.
More than a month on from polling day, eligible US voters from across the country as well as other parts of the world got in touch with the Guardian to share why they did not vote.
Scores of people said they had not turned out as they felt their vote would not matter because of the electoral college system, since they lived in a safely blue or red state. This included a number of people who nonetheless had voted in the 2020 and 2016 elections.
While various previous Democratic voters said they had abstained this time due to the Harris campaign’s stance on Israel or for other policy reasons, a number of people in this camp said they would have voted for the vice-president had they lived in a swing state.
“The Dems are out of touch on social issues, and have tacked too far to the left to appease a minority of progressives.”
Asshole.
And ignorant - they fell for the conservative talking points too
And us progressives feel ignored by the Dems. Wild
For those who aren’t aware already, “a minority of progressives” means “queer people,” specifically trans people.
This asshole is saying the Dems went too far in trying to make things more equal.
I think there are a lot of progressives, but I think not enough of them live in swing states. I’m one, and I know there are some around in the college crowd. When Michigan went blue trifecta in 2022, I thought the pendulum was swinging, but now it looks like I was wrong.
This guy might be an asshole, but I’m not certain that he’s wrong.
Progressivism is further-left than liberalism.
U guys need mandatory voting like what we got here in aus. And by mandatory it doesnt mean u have to pick someone (its ur right to spoil ur ballot) it simply means u have to attend a polling booth.
Voting is a duty not a right
We need laws that make it illegal to spread election misinformation. We can’t function as a society with this level of manipulation and outright falsities. Nobody knows what is up or down anymore and this is just the start of what AI and propaganda news media are gonna make possible in the very near future.
Who decides what is misinformation? The government who is in power and has a vested interest in maintaining power?
Internationally recognized 3rd party committee with elected members and strict regulations on conflicts of interests would be one option.
Or just stick with the current dumpster fire that could not possibly get any worse. (Well i suppose it could, and will)
To be fair, Australia doesn’t have it much better with misinformation. If a Labor (left-ish) government is in power, you can bet your arse that the papers will have a front page article every week on some screw up, no matter how minor. But when the Liberals (right) get in… crickets.
I would love some third party, but I fear that faith in any body like that is wearing thin. When the UN won’t stand up to its war-mongering members, I don’t think some org telling Trump not to call Biden a pedo is going to achieve much.
Honestly I’m speaking more about rebuilding from the ashes once everything burns. Sort of like how UN, NATO, and the beginnings of the EU were only made possible through extreme circumstances. Hopefully not that extreme, but this country is going to endure turmoil that I don’t think most Americans are ready for.
But maybe if we survive it we’ll be more willing to assess the circumstances that lead us there and take real and drastic action to prevent it from happening again. Or not… But I don’t want to give up hope completely.
Rebuilding from the ashes hey? Isnt that what the communists and the techbros want?
I find it ironic that we started with government havih a stranglhold of mainstream media propagandising everyone and now that we have the internet any anyone can run their propaganda (equallity of free speach) suddenly we now have to worry about propaganda.
Isnt the whole point that in the marketplace of ideas the best ones continue and the worste ones die? Is that not exactly what a platform like lemmy is?
Yes, burn like our newly-elected leaders have essentially promised. Are you offended that I’m acknowledging that reality?
And no, the internet won’t let truth ring out to the world. I thought the same when I was a wee lad too. The information superhighway. The end of oppressive government censorship.
The Information Age.
But no, maybe it’s not apparent in your neck of the woods yet, but it is here, and China, and Russia, and countless other backsliding nations: the Internet wasn’t our saviour, and bad ideas don’t naturally die if they are pushed to the masses. They thrive.
Lying trolls are downvoted on lemmy, we don’t give free passes and call everything “free speech” and remove voting buttons so we don’t hurt feelings. But sites like X where there is much larger reach don’t even offer that level of self-regulation. Bad ideas are boosted purposely and relentlessly. News channels have degraded to similar levels under increasingly partisan private ownership.
The Disinformation Age.
But between relentlessly spreading Trump talking points, one thing partisan networks like Fox News and OAN refused to push were claims about rigged voting machines, even when interviewing Trump in person.
Because they got sued. And lost. Badly and expensively.
Because libel has always been illegal in this country. Because we all inherently understand that free speech does not cover spreading blatant lies about people/companies.
But no person/entity pursues this in scale against even the most egregious far-reaching examples. Like when Musk boosts an article to millions claiming the MAGA nutjob who tried to beat Nancy Pelosi’s husband to death was his gay lover. Nothing. When Trump continues to declare the Democrats stole the 2020 election despite it being settled by every court case. Nothing.
Despite having provenly effective tools to keep people honest we’ve let things degrade to the point where nobody even needs to give a second thought as to whether they are expressing an opinion or just slandering/manipulating people because we are afraid that calling out blatant lies is violating “free speech”. Meanwhile a fascist regime abuses that to dismantle our democracy, frequently threatens any press who speak against them, threatens to jail prosecutors who cross them while performing their duties, political opponents who don’t bend to their will. And if that’s the case, then our democracy will burn, and then we’ll see what not having “free speech” really looks like.
There was a time in this country when we had policies like the Fairness Doctrine, upheld by the Supreme Court, enforced by the FCC, where bias in media was actually regulated. Throughout the most prosperous time in this country, from the late 1940s until, like many things that began our rapid decline, Reagan killed it.
Now even leveraging the much weaker tools remaining, in the face an existential threat to our democracy, is seen as some radical idea.
Lemmy is definitely not that. It’s an echo chamber like any other. Ideas that mollify or agree with the zeitgeist are promoted regardless of merit.
We’re able to adjudicate things like libel and slander just fine.
Misinformation or misdirection for how to vote or voting practices? The AEC will have you for that.
Misinformation or straight up political lies to convince you to vote for them?
Thats allowed.In Aus politicians can say whatever they want to get you to vote for them/not for the other parties, but they cannot trick you into filling out your vote cads to vote in a way that you didnt intend.
Is even easier than that. They will mail the ballot to your house months in advance and you can study everything especially all local initiatives and then mail it back at your leisure and people still don’t do that. It’s madness.
The problem is that the powers that be used wedge issues and the cowardice of half the citizens to sway the elections however they see fit.
Do you think they would wound their own ability to game power from the system to serve the citizens?
Ranked choice voting would be nice as well. So would having more than two political parties.
Yes Aus has both of those things too.
Voting should also be easier.
We should be able to vote with our phones.
Their are problems with that see the multiple tom scott videos on voting.
I didn’t find Harris compelling, just more of the same.
Well you’re sure not going to get more of the same now. Good job, shithead.
the problem is, we still gotta beat Trump.
I dont think anyone knows if actual leftist messages will actually work, but holy shit it’s gotta be better than diet, no caffeine, low sodium fun size Bill Clinton Zero.
Good job, shithead.
Yeah, keep blaming the people “not falling in line” instead of just running a candidate that supports them.
That’s how we got 2 Trump presidencies and people like you still haven’t learned from it.
If anything, this should teach people like you that expecting people to “fall in line” no longer works and you should support different tactics to prevent further conservative blowouts.
I don’t think people like you are capable of learning from this, though. You’re just going to get angrier and keep repeating the same mistakes expecting different results.
You’re right. I do blame people for “not falling in line” and letting a genocidal fascist dictator who made no secret of that gain control of a nation because they didn’t find the opposition “compelling.”
And as far from not having learned, I think what you haven’t learned is that 2024 was the last real election in the U.S. in your lifetime.
Harris lost. You got what you wanted. Be happy about it.
Yeah, you’re delusional and incapable of arguing in good faith.
And yet I did not insult you.
And if you think I’m delusional about what Trump is going to do, you’re in for a very rude awakening.
Yeah. You’re too distracted by the other guy being the antichrist to focus on how democrats would rather have trump than a progressive in office.
Until that culture changes, we shouldn’t expect our government to change.
Clearly you’re doing your part in making sure things stay exactly the same, while somehow expecting different results.
I think there’s a word for that, but I digress.
You’re right. I’m “too distracted” by the fascist dictatorship to play what if.
What part should I be doing? Insulting people on the internet? What else are you doing?
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Well when you get Biden pardoning a judge who literally took bribes to send kids to jail to benefit a for profit jail, I’d question how compelling the Democrats are.
Instead of voting 3rd party and trying to change things, many Americans seems to be locked in a pointless argument over which party is the least shit.
Maybe you shouldn’t worry about them being compelling when the alternative was fascism.
How are you still arguing this?
Because it is all a lie to cover up the truth. They want everyone to think of them as righteous, good, and caring. Hell, they want to think of themselves that way. But deep down they know it’s not quite true. There’s something they hate that is more important than what happens to anyone else, and even to themselves. I suspect that for a lot of them it’s extreme sexism… Sure, they are all for a female president. As long as she is perfect. Says everything perfect, does everything perfect, and it would really help if she had a penis too. Or maybe they didn’t want an Indian or another black person… Whatever it was it was more important than their so called support for the Palestinians, support for the Ukrains, hate of fascists and Nazis, ect ect…
Whatever it was, the blood of the Palestinians, Ukrains, is a small price to pay… But whatever it is, it’s heinous and they know it. So, rather than admit to everyone, and even more importantly themselves, what they know is truly disgusting, they pretend that it was something that makes no sense. “She didn’t explain her policies, we didn’t like her policies on something even though her opponents were 100 times worse…”
It’s a smoke screen for the truth. Intellectual Dishonesty. They are lying to us and themselves.
At least the maga crowd has the guts to admit their hate. They come straight out and let you know that they are fine with the world burning as long as whatever they hate burns with it.Well then I guess you’ve gotten what you wanted. Enjoy the Trump administration and the all new domestic genocides.
I’m not the guy you were responding to. I responded to your question about how he could still be arguing such an illogical argument.
And to reiterate, his entire argument is a lie. It’s a smoke screen to hide the real reason he didn’t want to vote for a woman, or a brown person, or whatever his hang-up is.Sorry, I agree with you.
Not all the people who didn’t vote for Harris are Trump supporters; there are a lot of leftists and progressives who believe that they can’t survive any more late-stage capitalism. They recognize that the only peaceful chance to stop the wealthiest 1% from ruling is to stop electing them and stop electing the people who are bought by them.
Corporate democrats are better on certain social issues but they’ll still put wealth over people, and they’ll never move left. It’s why we have the cruel health system we have today. It’s why the banks got bailed out and never got regulated. It’s why the Digital Millennium Copyright Act passed. Heck, 81 Congressional house democrats just voted for a military spending bill that denies medical care to trans kids.
Kamala Harris is a corporate democrat.
And like I told the person before you, she lost so you got what you wanted. Enjoy the fascism and the genocides.
I actually voted both third party and for Harris, so maybe don’t assume you know how people voted or what they want.
How you still did not understand that this way of arguing won’t change anyone’s mind?
“Choose between slow sleepwalk to fascism or this rapid honest one”.
I can’t fathom why people put all the blame on the voters. Dems could a and should have done more. Harris got billion dollars for her campaign!
Biden pardoning his son is understandable, but a giant Fuck You to everyone else. He got his, now the rest will live with consequences.
DNC has fucked the USA again and again. How about some blame there.
I can’t fathom why people put all the blame on the voters
Unreal.
Most voters don’t have luxuries of having time or education to make deep dives into issues, and are swayed by some nonsense.
And think what you like, it’s usually not something they choose voluntarily or consciously.
I can’t fathom how people point out how ‘pulling yourselves up by the bootstraps’ is BS, and then they point to tired, underpaid, health issue ridden public and say: “you should know not to vote for this!!1!”.
Then Harris panders to the right and the same people don’t understand how she could lose. Really?
AOCs voters said they are tired of the status quo. Something we all know and understand. And we know the DNC will never let go of the status quo. Where does this lead to?
AOC’s voters said all sorts of insane, idiotic shit, when she asked why they voted for her but also Trump.
It was trivially easy, and took very little time, to inform yourself about the two options. There is no excuse. People need to take responsibility for their decisions, and blaming everyone but themselves is just copium.
Those are the people you have to convince to vote, that’s all.
If you keep ignoring them, nothing will change.
This attitude is what brought the results. Ignoring masses to pander to billionaires is not going to win democrats anything. Pointing fingers to other side and announcing ‘we are better than them’ worked only once.
Most voters don’t have luxuries of having time or education to make deep dives into issues, and are swayed by some nonsense.
Arguably most voters wouldn’t have needed to take a deep dive into issues to see Trump was the worse option, a shallow one at most. A swim would’ve been enough, really.
Why would I care about changing anyone’s mind at this point? America is going to be a fascist dictatorship. Any sort of semblance of a free and fair election are over.
By understanding the problem potential solutions may emerge.
Doomerism helps the owner class, they need you to feel helpless and isolated. Don’t let them win.
Do you know nothing about Project 2025? You’ve had a long time to learn about it. The whole point is to keep Republicans in power perpetually and remove any need for legitimate elections.
And you think you can vote your way out of that?
(By the way, I love how you’ve gone from “this sort of arguing won’t change anyone’s mind” to “why aren’t you trying to change people’s minds?!?!”)
Re:btw what do you mean? It’s the same thing: you should be trying to change people’s minds, and be better at that, and I’m bringing your attention to it. You are a prolific poster all over the fediverse, so you can have a big impact on people. And I think you are aware of it.
I’ve known about the P25 for a long time, I’m well aware of its consequences. Burying our heads and losing our hope is the only way they can get away with it.
Kings have fallen, and we all should do our best to not create them again. That includes understanding those who voted for them. Ignoring the problem or its root cause won’t change anything.
I keep repeating this line in my head:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
If it doesn’t change a person’s mind, it’s because they don’t understand it.
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Fortunately Biden wasn’t on the ballot
No, but “i wont be fundentally different from Biden” Harris was.
Yeah fuck Biden for doing that, but try to stay on topic
“What is the point [of voting]?,” he asked. “Aside from a handful of weaponized issues, the parties are nearly identical. They both hate the poor and serve only their donors.”
We can yell at them that the handful of issues should matter enough, or we could actually try to get a popular candidate past the party itself and I to the general.
But shit isn’t going to change until we all admit the DNC isn’t automatically on our side. I’m more hopeful than I should be for the DNC election in February, but I’m ready to be disappointed.
I really wish we had a unified left because there are enough of us to make a serious push to take over the party, but we’re too interested in bickering amongst ourselves
to make a serious push to take over the party
No theres not. This is the effect of the lemmy echo chamber. America is A LOT more conservative than ppl here like to admit. The actual left of the Democratic party are ppl like Bernie and AOC and they’re definitely not celebrated inside the DNC
too interested in bickering amongst ourselves
That’s because three Democratic party is a coalition of liberals and conservatives
We 100% don’t agree on everything, and I don’t know how unified we can be given the number of diverse interests under the umbrella. Feminists don’t have any natural overlap with folks who want to eliminate cars or with atheists. The only unifying goal that makes proponents allies is opposing conservatives.
You’ve got black folks who are going to live their entire lives oppressed by systemic racism being told to just go along with getting rights excruciatingly slowly and trust their grandkids will have it great.
I’m afraid as much sense as your point makes, it isn’t realistic.
Surprised not to see some self-unaware someone arguing that this position is somehow too far to the right or something
Problem is that leftists like money, too, and aren’t afraid to exploit others in order to get it.
The person in the quote is a big indicator that schools are failing to teach civics properly, and people don’t understand what voting is (locally, state, or federally.) Also, they are a fucking idiot.
He’s referring to the illusion of choice.
Your comment is textbook irony.
“What a circus” say eligible voters who didn’t vote in the 2024 election:
The clowns are the ones who fall in line believing that things will improve.
One guy said this “VP Harris failed to demonstrate she was ethically or intellectually capable of executing the office, repeatedly failing to detail out her policies…" It’s infuriating that people continue to believe Harris never detailed her policies despite the fact that all she talked about was policy. All they had to do was pay attention to her and she would talk about her policies, it seems like they just didn’t want to even pay attention to her. Or that because she didn’t detail alllll of her policies then that wasn’t enough. Add on that this person calls her intellectually incapable of talking about her policies, basically calling her stupid and it’s just exhausting.
This whole article continues to make me believe in the fundamental problem with Democrat voters which so many people have shown. The democrats have to run the perfect candidate with the perfect policies or the charisma of Obama who promise the world, while the Republicans can run a guy who says immigrants are eating cats and dogs and because the Democratic candidate wasn’t perfect, the Republicans win.
And then when the Democrats do promise signficant change and it doesn’t immediately happen, Democrat voters punish them for it, they lose the midterms, and any change that was in the process of happening gets stopped dead. But when Republicans promise the world and don’t deliver, Republican voters reward them for simply promising it.
“Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.”
Institutional vs anti institutional. Dems are institutional and the institution sucks. Trump is a sledgehammer. He promised alot of sledgehammering. Not good, but that’s irrelevant. The Dems need to stop protecting the broken system of neo liberal economics that fucking Regan invented and chasing the phantom center right vote.
Aka. swing left or die.
What if we make not voting an official vote and, if it wins, all the parties have to try again with new candidates?
Why not. Maybe I would cap it at some number of elections.
Yeah, we don’t want to have a politician de facto in power because no one else better comes along and/or no one still wants to vote.
I blame my peers who didn’t vote just as much as my peers who voted for Trump for what is to come.
I’m done giving a shit. We had a chance to stop this, and we sat on our ass.
I blame everyone who hasn’t learned from 2016 that expecting voters to “fall in line” is not a winning strategy.
Unfortunately, you’re showing us that you still haven’t learned from your mistakes so I expect more conservative victories in the future.
Anything to avoid helping out poor people at the expense of the rich, right?
All I got from this is that Democrats, progressives, and Americans are fucking absolutely stupid regardless of education level.
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Why are you lumping progressives in with them?
Trump won 2 presidencies because democrats actively work against progressive agendas which would actually benefit regular people.
Progressives work against progressive agendas by naming pro-safety policies like “don’t have police respond to mental health patients” as the Fox-news like “defund the police”.
Non voters are almost as dumb as the trump people.
Not really. There’s substantial evidence to indicate that voting does not significantly impact policy.
I think people like you are just grasping at straws to avoid admitting that you put your faith in a failing process.
To further drive your point home-
The evidence isn’t that voting doesn’t affect things. That’s a moronic conclusion. Its that largely things the public wants are vetoed by corporate influence.
The evidence is that voting affects things the corporate class is indifferent to- the easiest thing to point to is that the individual pet projects of candidates have an outsized effect: The invasion of Iraq being the easiest example of where the intention to create a war that hundreds of thousands died was essentially because the guy that won the 2000 election had a fixation.
Not voting takes less energy than voting for someone that doesn’t represent a potential voters interests. That’s not stupid, that’s just taking the path of least resistance.
Lol this was a 1:1 repeat of 2016.
I voted and sat back as the Dems threw away their election by willingly ignoring their constituents in exchange for AIPAC money.
the only conclusion is this is the model for both parties into the foreseeable future.
I live in a blue state but that doesn’t mean I’d be justified in believing that I should sit it out. Even if that insane logic about not needing to was valid, there’s other shit on the ballot. And even if my vote for or abstaining against an uncontested incumbent is irrelevant, there’s still ballot measures that need to be understood.
The large number of eligible non-voters is primarily a result of those individual’s responses to propaganda. This did not happen by accident. I don’t blame the person that got conned, I blame those running the con job.
Not according to the article. Lots of voters in solid red or blue states didn’t see a point, and who am I to argue. Thanks to gerrymandering, this is often true even for local races. Why vote for a party that supports genocide when your vote is nothing but virtue signaling for a party bereft of virtue?
I’d be the one to argue …… I mean, fine if you really don’t see the point, but the reasoning on half of these people in the article is flawed. Either they were speaking out of ignorance or using excuses for poor citizenship, but when their reason contradicts reality, they should be argued
And even if you’re in a solid red or blue state (like I am), your vote counts. Maybe it won’t change the results but they do pay attention. At the very least we could always say the Democratic candidate would win the popular vote. Not this time.
If there’s ever going to be a chance at reforming the electoral college system, t starts by having the popular vote be consistently different from the electoral vote. From this election, there’s no reason for reform, because both had the same result
You say that yoyur the one to argue, but you made no argument. Why should someone in a solid red or blue state bother to vote for a Democratic presidential candidate that supports genocide? (I’m excluding other races here to keep it simple)
If you really like a candidate, then I can see voting for them even if you know your vote is ultimately irrelevant. But, if you justifiably hate both candidates, one marginally less, a lesser of two evils argument only holds weight when your vote might actually matter.
- There are quite a few more people in the article than the summary - I bet you’d also spot a bunch that give invalid reasons
- If your single issue is the atrocity in Gaza, both support that so it is not a valid decision. If you believe Trumps words, he’d make it worse.
- Your vote always matters, even if it’s the lesser of two evils. Even if it didn’t affect the results this time
You didn’t comment on the article, you responded to my point on a singular common justification.
Trump and Harris both support the genocide making (theoretical) me uncomfortable voting for either. If my vote might matter, then I would hold my nose and vote for the lesser evil. If not, then I’d rather signal my disapproval of both.
Saying that my vote always matters is a nice cliche, but you know perfectly well that in a bunch of states it’s just not true. If my vote put Harris over the top in Illinois, it’s an absolute certainty that she got destroyed nationally. So, even if my vote mattered, it wouldn’t matter that it mattered.
If the only real consequence of my vote is an impotent signal of approval, then not voting is an impotent signal of disapproval. That matters just as much, if not more.
Trump and Harris both support the genocide making (theoretical) me uncomfortable voting for either.
Theoretical you and a bunch of real people just didn’t give a shit about the fact that Trump is going to add domestic genocide to the agenda. Theoretical you was told directly by Trump himself that immigrants were “vermin” and “criminals” and he was going to get them all on the track to deportation on day one. Theoretical you should have taken a few seconds to put two and two together and realize that means concentration camps and anyone with darker skin being suspected.
But even if theoretical you is one of those darker-skinned people, you thought, “well he’s not going to put me in a
concentrationdeportation camp, so I don’t have to worry about that while there’s a genocide happening on the other side of the world that both candidates support.”It’s pretty fucking heartless of theoretical you and all the actual people who didn’t give a flying fuck about anyone but themselves, but liked to pretend they cared by pretending that the one genocide was the only genocide.
I’m certainly convinced that you are a Democrat. I can tell because you ignored what I said and gave the rant you wanted to give, completely oblivious to the fact that none if it applies to what I said. You can’t get any more Democratic than that. Scolding voters is not a great strategy.
You’re ignoring the fact that this person clearly would have voted for Harris if they were in a swing state. Harris did not lose Illinois and this person got to avoid getting blood on their hands via voting for perpetuation of genocide. That sounds far more ethical and rational than just knee jerk voting no matter what.
Local elections matter a lot. If the government shits its pants and nominates total morons who literally have no idea how to perform their job, it falls to state elections and officials to pick up the slack. And if your state elects fucking idiots, your last line of defense are your city officials. And you better pray they are damn good at their job.
You only want the best state officials, and the best only get elected if people vote. Out of 8,000,000 people in our state, 54 decided an election for a massive role during nov 2024. Four of those were from family, so a difference of about a block or three changed the outcome for millions of people. And we are deep blue. 50 votes away from a red candidate.
You have it backwards - not voting because of a single issue is the real virtue signaling. Voting for the lesser of two evils is simply pragmatic.
not voting because of a single issue is the real virtue signaling.
You’re just making assertions, not arguments. You’re also not paying attention because this makes zero sense as a response to my argument.
My entire point was that signaling is all than many voters can do because their vote is irrelevant. Skipping the presidential race is a signal too.
Also, fuck referring to the mass slaughter of civilians as just a “single issue”.
No - fuck handing the government to a criminal and his fascist cronies in order to prove a point. The USA is nearly completely lost to the oligarchs and we played right into their hands. The war in Gaza is diespicable and awful and we just elected a group who will strip away even more of the power we had to try and stop that atrocity and future atrocities.
fuck handing the government to a criminal and his fascist cronies in order to prove a point.
Know why Democrats lose so many damn elections? They don’t know how to fucking listen to what people are saying. That you think this has anything to do with my comment is absolutely bizarre. Neither I, nor the voter I’m talking about cost the Democrats a damn thing.
The USA is nearly completely lost to the oligarchs and we played right into their hands.
No fucking kidding. You’re half way to the truth. Now you just have to embrace the reality that “oligarchs” includes the Clintons, Obamas, Pelosis, Schumers, and (to a lesser degree) Biden’s. Then you will really understand how truly fucked this country is.
we just elected a group who will strip away even more of the power we had
Who’s “we”? The main difference between Republicans and Democrats is that the Republicans have no shame. Democrats feel kind of bad about screwing us for their handlers, so they throw us a bone from time to time. In that dynamic, what’s happening now was inevitable and it was just a matter of when.
We should have overthrown the Democrats in 2020 to create a new dynamic, but we missed our chance. Nobody knows when or if we will get another. The Republicans will never be any better than they are until they have to face an emboldened and left-populist Democratic party. The party we have is light years from being that.
In spite of your rather insulting way of putting things I actually agree with most of what you’re saying, and yet even still voting Kamala was the easiest and most obvious choice voters had to make in decades and somehow still failed.
I didn’t react well to being implicated in “handing the government to a criminal and his fascist cronies in order to prove a point”. Criticism of voters in general gets under my skin because it’s so counter productive.
What propaganda? Running a shitty candidate that doesn’t represent the interests of working people is not propaganda.
If anything, this derision towards those who refuse to “fall in line” reads like propaganda. It makes sense that people like you would peddle it without even knowing.
In the USA, How you vote is private. If you voted is public.
“It doesn’t matter” (and they’re right) is always going to be the number one answer. Very few states actually have meaningful voting rights with respect to the presidential election. Lower races are sometimes more meaningful, but even then they’re frequently forgone conclusions. The only votes I had that weren’t a forgone conclusion was some municipal ballot measures.
And yet doing something is better than doing nothing. Everyone can’t just assume that everyone else will do the right thing.
The whole reason theyre foregone conclusions is because people stay home. Someone link the map that shows non voters win most of the country.
No, they aren’t. I know my local community. We’re a blue state and going to vote blue. Just because someone is a non-voter doesn’t mean they have radically different political beliefs than the rest of their community. They’re usually listening to the same broadcasts, having the same social networks, and growing up with the same pervasive political biases. Some will diverge from the norm, but by and large non-voters simply don’t care enough to form a new political opinion. For every besieged opposition voter with learned helplessness there are ten who if they were forced to make a decision will just reference the general prevailing opinion.
And yet everyone here bitches that the dems aren’t left enough, etc. Imagine if non voters got off their asses and actually voted in the primaries.
I don’t buy that nothing would change. Don’t buy that at all.
Have you actually tried to talk to your non-voting friends about politics? An avidly political friend’s boyfriend, when encouraged to register and be ready to vote, wanted to vote for a shitty Republican because his name sounded cool. Even the ones who aren’t just outright dumb like this actively just avoid taking any position because they don’t know what the politics are and don’t want the responsibility of trying to learn. They default to very generally held sentiments and try to pick a name they’ve heard of before. They’re not the sleeping activists you’re dreaming of.
Im not saying theyre activists. I have and generally theyre uninterested (obviously) but would learn if they took the time to actually vote. That or their opinions line up with more left of center things but they aren’t represented by that because they don’t vote. (The experience is probably different given you live in a blue area and I in a purple one.)
Even if they don’t, they should vote regardless. It’s a civic duty.
So wait, if your state wins, the excess votes don’t matter towards the presidential candidate?
Nope, they just go to the popular vote as bragging rights. It’s a stupid system.
i guess it’s similar to our system here in canada, however many ridings the party has dictates their position in the house. its really dumb because some reps might be great people, but the leader is a total dingus. I don’t know what party i am voting for because i have lost faith in all the parties in my county.
