• givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    “Under the deal reached today, effective at 4:00 a.m. tomorrow, local time, the fighting across the Lebanese Israeli border will end,” Biden said in the White House Rose Garden.

    “This is designed to be a permanent cessation of hostilities,” he added. “What is left of Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations will not be allowed, I emphasize, will not be allowed, to threaten the security of Israel again.”

    Can never tell if Biden is saying what he means to say, or his mind went on a walkabout…

    But it sounds like that’s less of an equal ceasefire and more that Israel will restart if they hear anyone complain about Israel’s actions…

    Like, Biden is literally threatening them, that if they threaten Israel that’s enough for a war…

    And he probably legit believes this is fair and equal

    • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      “Fair and equal” for a military industrial complex that has waged war its entire existence is about as “fair and equal” as a master and their slave.

    • remon@ani.social
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      2 months ago

      And he probably legit believes this is fair and equal

      Why should it be? It’s a ceasefire deal, not splitting candy between kids. You accept or impose the conditions of the deal based on your position and capabilities on the battlefield.

    • kreskin@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Biden’s probably patting himself on the back for “bringing peace” to a conflict he helped create and make worse. Helped lose the election to a fascist too. I hope history remembers him for the complete murderous idiot he is.

    • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Well he’s basically saying that if they break the ceasefire again, they get the hose again

    • maplebar@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      They’re allowed to “complain about Israel”. They aren’t allowed to fire missiles or wage attacks.

      Hope that clears things up for you.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        They aren’t allowed to fire missiles or wage attacks.

        I know Bibi may think of indiscriminate attacks on civilians as “just a threat” but very very few others do…

  • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    Hey, look, that’s white phosphorus, it’s a war crime on the featured image! Yay normalization of barbarity UwU

        • rektangel@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          It hasn’t been replaced on my end, even with disabled caching. But yeah, this is probably a war crime. 😞 You’d think Israel would know better with their history.

          • wpb@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            From the nakba, to their initiation of the six day war and the resulting ethnic displacement of some 400k people, to their 80s invasion of Lebanon and the resulting ethnic cleansing at Sabra and Shatila, to their siege on gaza since 2008 targeting civilians by cutting off food and building materials and regular bombings, to their reaction to the peaceful march of return protests (snipers targeting the elderly, children, and the disabled), to the current ongoing well-documented genocide, what is it about the history of Israel that makes you think they should know better? They’re literally built on war crimes and atrocities.

            If you’re talking about the holocaust, that’s part of the history of Jewish people, not that of Israel. And many Jewish people do criticize Israel for its war crimes, precisely because of the holocaust. Israel is not the same as the Jewish people, and conflating the two is actually kind of antisemitic.

      • indomara@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        This is the image. (I use imagus or hover zoom which enlarges images all over the web upon hover)

        There do appear to be civilian buildings with lights on in the image.

        • wpb@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          What a relief! , Here I was thinking it was an incendiary non-discriminate weapon that could horribly maim civilians if used in a densely populated city like beirut.

          • LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Simply pointing it out because use of white phosphorus is probably a war crime under the Geneva convention but thermite isn’t. Also people in this thread are reading an awful lot into a very low rez thumbnail that doesn’t even appear in the article and for all I know has nothing to do with the israel-lebanon comflict.

      • Tinidril@midwest.social
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        2 months ago

        Nothing is fixed. There are no penalties whatsoever for Israel if they break this ceasefire, and that is by design. Israel wants to pause and reload. When they are ready, they will find an excuse and start right back up. They want that land, and they are going to get it with our help.

        • bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          There was a ceasefire between Hezbollah and Israel from 2006 until October 8th 2023. Then Hezbollah attacked Israel for a year causing tens of thousands of Israelis to flee the north, before the IDF went in to stop the attacks.

          Hezbollah should not have even been in southern Lebanon according to UNSC resolution 1701.

          • Tinidril@midwest.social
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            2 months ago

            Was Israel really attacked In October 2023? This is the first I heard of it. So weird for something like that to just happen out of the clear blue sky to such wonderful people who definitely didn’t provoke it or anything.

            • bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              Sure there’s a history behind everything. This escalations started on October 7th 2023. It remains the day with the most violent deaths in one day for all of the wars involving Israel.

              • Tinidril@midwest.social
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                2 months ago

                I’m sorry (not really) but decades of watching Israel unnecessarily provoke Palestine with apartheid dominance and unjustified illegal land grabs, I’m fucking done with “both sides”. The prejudices might be symmetrical, but only Israel had the power to alter the dynamics, and they chose the path to violence.

    • iii@mander.xyz
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      2 months ago

      What about Sudan Biden? What about mexico biden? What about DRC biden? What about Myanmar Biden? Eh eh eh ??!!

      Is this really how your mind operates?

        • iii@mander.xyz
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          2 months ago

          I’m questioning the first comment’s rethoric.

          • small44@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            He is asking Biden to at least advocate for imposing pressure on Israelis if it can’t do it

            • iii@mander.xyz
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              2 months ago

              That’s a surprising, to me, interpretation of that comment. Can you please point out to me where the comment argued for diplomacy?

                • iii@mander.xyz
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                  2 months ago

                  Sure. Line-by-line we venture:

                  Sooo…what about Gaza, Biden?

                  No indication of argueing for diplomacy

                  What about Palestine, Biden?

                  Idem

                  Eh?

                  Idem

                  Eh??

                  Idem

                  In conclusion: to the best of my abilities, I fail to see how this comment argues for diplomacy.

                  “He is asking Biden to at least advocate for imposing pressure on Israelis if it can’t do it”, so far as I can see, that tought is not present in that comment.

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              I’m sure if Hamas agreed to retreat 20 miles from the border they’d get the same deal

              • small44@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                I am sure if Israel didn’t decide to invade the West bank and Gaza in 67 they would live in peace

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  2 months ago

                  I’m not sure if you’re joking, but if you’re not, you might want to read a little about the war you’re referencing.

                  Israel invaded those territories because Jordan and Egypt were using them to launch a surprise attack.

                  “Live in peace” is a bit subjective in your example lol

              • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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                2 months ago

                Gaza is only 25 miles long and, at it’s widest, 7.5 miles thick. It’s literally impossible to move 20 miles from the border.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                2 months ago

                Uh… So Israel can settle it? No fucking thanks. And in the first place Gaza is only 25 miles long.

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  I’m sorry I have to explain this. In the case of Hezbollah, they’re agreeing to retreat to a distance from the border from where they can’t (significantly) attack Israel again. The poster I’m replying to questions why Israel can’t (be forced to) make a similar deal with Hamas. I’m using sarcasm to point to an important reason why

              • Saleh@feddit.org
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                2 months ago

                20 miles from the border is in the Sea… Which shows again how anything short of total annihilation of anyone question Israel supremacy seems insufficient for Israel and its supporters.

              • shaserlark@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                So you’re suggesting ethnic cleansing. You don’t have to say it because that’s the only possible consequence of your suggestion. Absolutely disgusting.

      • maplebar@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        This is what people acting in bad faith do; constantly moving the goalposts so that they are never satisfied with the people who they never intended to give credit in the first place. There could be a ceasefire in Gaza tomorrow and people would find some new shit to gripe about.

        Welcome to the hamster wheel of modern political hackery.

        • Tinidril@midwest.social
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          2 months ago

          A ceasefire tomorrow doesn’t eliminate or make up for war crimes today. There should be no satisfaction until the criminals are brought to justice.

    • maplebar@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Hamas is free to agree to a ceasefire at any time of their choosing, contingent mostly on their willingness to hand over the remaining hostages. Allah knows they’ve had many opportunities thus far, so what’s stopping them?

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

        This isnt about the hostages, this is Israel engaging in Genocide to eradicate and forcibly displace the Palestinian people. Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.

        De-development via the Gaza Occupation

        Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

        Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

        • Page 105

        Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

        • page 240

        In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

        • Page 402

        • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

        Blockade, including Aid

        Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

        After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

        The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

        Peace Process and Solution

        Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

        How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

        ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

        One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

        Human Shields

        Hamas:

        Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.

        Israel:

        Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:

        Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

        Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so: