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‘the need for Zionism is sort of irrefutably proved by the fact that the Shoah occurred.’

I don’t know when this started exactly. Maybe it was before Oct 7, but I’ve only noticed it more prominently since then. There is this narrative going on reminiscent of “The Holocaust didn’t happen, but it should.”

It’s not usually so explicit. It comes in flavors of “Israel is committing genocide”, “Israelis are the true Nazis”, and “We need to stop letting them use the Holocaust as an excuse to have free reign.” It might come with some form of “I’m not an antisemite, but”. And it frequently happens in spaces where people don’t want to challenge it.

It’s an attempt to lessen or even reverse the roles of the Holocaust. We live in an age of massive amounts of information, and it’s clear that throughout history, people scapegoated the Jews. And so people scapegoating Jews need some kind of way to prevent history from getting in the way of their propaganda.

So they attack history itself. They say we should ignore the Holocaust or that it’s not relevant because look at the Jews now.

I’m sure others here have noticed this, but I think it’s important to discuss.

This definitely started before October 7th; it might even date back to the Intifadas, when Arafat was still alive.

Clearly this isn't an explicit thought process, but I think a lot of people intuitively understand that the need for Zionism is sort of irrefutably proved by the fact that the Shoah occurred. Meanwhile, a common pro-Israel argument is to simply point out that if you support the right of any minority to self-rule and self-determination, then it's pure bigoted hypocrisy to not support that same right for the Jews. Any anti-Semite who doesn't revel in open bigotry thus feels the need to not just ignore but, as you say, "reverse" the Holocaust.

Add to this the fact that right-wing neo-Nazis have had a sort of monopoly on the "the Holocaust never actually happened" conspiracy, and you end up with members of the "dirtbag Left" who contort themselves into saying, essentially, "Maybe the Holocaust happened, but Netanyahu doing a policy I don't like means that it's retroactively justified and should be done again."

Eloquently put.

I think there’s definitely also an element of not wanting to admit they’re attacking a tiny minority and our vulnerability is why they’re able to do so with impunity. They want to feel like they’re bravely taking down some world-controlling evil, which is hard to do to the people targeted in the Shoah, rather than the truth of targeting the vulnerable like any other cowards.

This ⬆️ should be pinned!

(Source.)

I don’t expect Herzlians to be aware of the numerous ways that their predecessors collaborated with the European Fascists, let alone the Shoah’s fundamental causes, but that they can continue to insist on the existence of a shitty little neocolony while somebody else is bombing it astounds me.

What’s that you say? You only want self-determination? Well, everybody brace yourselves, because for the first time in history, somebody is going to give the complete and comprehensive list showing every example of Jewish self-determination in occupied Palestine. Ready? Here it is: That’s right, nothing! There are no examples of Jewish self-determination in the ‘State of Israel’ on the list! Because there is no such fucking thing over there!

So let us dispense with this implication that Jews have autassassinophilia (Sharon Lopatka notwithstanding), shall we? Zionism irrefutably proves that Zionism is unneeded, because anybody who has spent a few minutes looking at the news can guess that concentrating a minority into a deeply unpopular ethnostate, now once again under attack, does not keep the minority safer. Don’t be fucking boneheaded.

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